Color coding -- ungrounded conductors

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ike5547

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Chico, CA
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Electrician
Is there an NEC requirement that ungrounded conductors in multi-phase systems be differentiated from each other by color or other means? I'm surprised I can't find anything on that.
 
Not asking about specific colors but about differentiation between hot phase conductors. For example, if someone fed a 3-phase machine with three blacks instead of black, red, and blue (which differentiate). I don't see anything in the NEC.
 
There is not specific color coding other than grounded, grounding, high-leg and a few other odd areas like intrinsically safe, DC and (I think) some isolated power supplies (Art 517).
You might want to look at 210.5 if you have different voltage systems.
 
So, phase A = black, B = black, C = black.

If there is no local or state code this is fine.

I don't like it, but whatever.
 
ike5547 said:
So, phase A = black, B = black, C = black.

If there is no local or state code this is fine.

I don't like it, but whatever.
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Correct no local rules or amendment's. You might find a zealous inspector making up their own rules.
You might find specs on a job that require such , but that is it.
 
I thought if there were multiple voltage systems in a building that each one had to be color coded, i.e. if there was 208 y / 120, and 480 y / 277, the 208 would be black red blue, with a white neutral, and the 480 would be brown orange yellow, with a gray neutral.

There is certainly nothing wrong with color coding your system, I see the Poco does this all the time on overhead services transitioning to Underground... You see black, red, and blue tape everywhere

Eta: the aforementioned 210.5 C in the 2008 NEC requires ungrounded conductors of Branch circuits of different voltages to be identified. This is typically done in the colors I mentioned
 
JFletcher said:
Eta: the aforementioned 210.5 C in the 2008 NEC requires ungrounded conductors of Branch circuits of different voltages to be identified. This is typically done in the colors I mentioned
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Easy. Just make the 120/208 ungrounded conductors black and the 277/480 all red. NEC compliance achieved.
 
And if you only have one system voltage anything goes. Splice your orange to your blue to your pink to your yellow. NEC compliant.
 
ActionDave said:
No, I'm not.

If you make any judgment about a conductor based on the color of the insulation you are putting yourself and others in danger. The idea that certain colors are reserved for certain conductors makes this worse.
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I never tamper with electrical wiring based on assumptions. I always take measurements. But where this is impractical I like to see certain consistencies from an inspector's point of view (though I'm not an inspector). When an installer that knows what they're doing follows a specific color scheme consistent through out an entire job I can glean certain information from that. This doesn't mean he couldn't have made mistakes.
 
ike5547 said:
I never tamper with electrical wiring based on assumptions. I always take measurements. But where this is impractical I like to see certain consistencies from an inspector's point of view (though I'm not an inspector).
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Why is it that competent electricians are so afraid of inspectors?

When an installer that knows what they're doing follows a specific color scheme consistent through out an entire job I can glean certain information from that.
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Yeah, he has a lot of time and somebody else's money to spend.

This doesn't mean he couldn't have made mistakes.
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Who says he made a mistake? Maybe he did a good job and knew that a competent electrician following him would understand circuitry without the need for a paint by number chart.
 
Based on my experience, were you ever to find your dream job of all black conductors, say a couple hundred thousand square feet of it, you'd very quickly change your mind. It'd be a nightmare to trouble-shoot. You would find yourself marking the conductors.
 
Cat5e with four white black black white pairs... made by the very short lived De Sade & Leary Wiring Co. The greasy jacket and razor wire pull strings were also nice features...
 
ike5547 said:
Based on my experience, were you ever to find your dream job of all black conductors, say a couple hundred thousand square feet of it, you'd very quickly change your mind. It'd be a nightmare to trouble-shoot. You would find yourself marking the conductors.
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We do quite a bit of that sometimes anyway.

Ever done much control work? unless you use alphanumeric identification system you usually run out of colors pretty fast.

Ever run multiple three phase circuits in one raceway - may have multiple sets of Brown, Orange, Yellow, but still end up with tape or numbering system to identify which three are one set.
 
ike5547 said:
Based on my experience, were you ever to find your dream job of all black conductors, say a couple hundred thousand square feet of it, you'd very quickly change your mind. It'd be a nightmare to trouble-shoot. You would find yourself marking the conductors.
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I worked in a large steel mill in East Chicago, Indiana that had every wire black. Even the ground wires. They were pulled in that way.
 
ike5547 said:
So, phase A = black, B = black, C = black.

If there is no local or state code this is fine.

I don't like it, but whatever.
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Best color code there is.

Worked in a plant where all 480v was black and all 120v was red except for the grounded conductors that is.

Simple and save a ton of wire.

JAP>
 
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