Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

[flightline]

Perhaps I don't get out much any more, so I'll ask all of you. I hear that Cutler Hammer now makes a 60A 2P Non-fused A/C disconnect switch with built-in GFCI receptacle, [their model DPU22RGF]. They market it to comply with not only the disconnect requirement, but also comply with NEC 210.63. On the one hand, I think it's a good idea. But the crotchety old-fart in me hasn't been impressed with the A/C disconnects that I have seen for some time. Do nay of you have any experience with this yet, and if so, what do ya' think? I'd be curious as to what you think. Thanks.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

I am curious how they can offer a 15 or 20 amp 110 off of this.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

I'm not sure if I've seen this one yet, but some of the A/C rooftop type units I've inspected have internal GFCI's that work off of the load side of the switch. I would make very certain that this isn't the case with these before purchasing one for no reason.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

If it was off the load side i see problem.Now he can't use his tools without working it hot.What about the neutral? can a motor that uses 50% of the circuit share this circuit with a receptacle?

 

[iwire]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

After reading flightlines post I went searching and found a pdf sheet for it.

Here it is, CH Disco and GFCI

It looks like a pull out disconnect with a GFCI installed in it but not fed from the disco.

You still have to run the feed for the AC unit and a feed for the outlet.

It is only saving a separate box and bubble cover.

Many RTUs (large ones) have an internal outlet fed from a separate circuit.

The ones that are fed from the load side of the switch are OK for the laptop PC needed for programing the unit but I would have to add one for code purposes.

 

[roger]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Jim, more eggs?

Roger

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

no eggs
i had ??? mark after what i said LOL

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Ok if i use this AC box with receptacle can i use it for 1 of the required outlets (front back)?

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Yes Jim, you can.

 

[iwire]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

I am sure the customer will be impressed opening the disconnect cover to plug in the radio

 

[mdshunk]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

CH is my main line and I haven't seen this unit yet. I'd be interested to see what it prices out at. I need to make a mental note to call on Monday. Might be a cost savings over traditional methods. I can see this being handy for light commercial splits where the condensing unit is on the roof (one less roof penetration for the receptacle, neater install). I can also see using this for the condensing unit of walk-in freezers and coolers. They are almost always lacking the required receptacle. In my opinion, anything that makes a job easier (if the cost is about the same as traditional methods) has merit and should be tried once or twice.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Would be easy to pull that 10-2 along with a 14-2
Might well be worth it.
I never look at things with only material cost or labor.They must be added to arrive at the smart answer.Have seen some EC run 12-2 from one outside receptacle to the next(sometimes 80 feet)just so they could save a $7 gfci.On jobs that i control im using the nearest lighting circuit

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

We have used this unit on occasion. It is fed with 240v. for the A/C and a seperate 120v. feed for the internal GFCI receptacle.
At @ $29.00, it doesn't get used much. It is normally less expensive to install a weatherproof receptacle with bubble cover within 25ft. of the A/C unit(s).

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Jim,
our outside receptacles are wired on a seperate 20amp GFCI protected circut. It's not to save the $7 (now about $13) on the GFCI receptacle, but to cut down on call backs.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Ok luke i will bite.Tell how you will get less calls.If they have gfci recep at that outdoor location they will see the reset button.Your way they got to know its in the garage or where ever.I have had service calls when your method was used.
One was a real dandy .Bathroom receptacle is dead ,so is the one on other end of house at dressing sink/table and back receptacle.master bath and front receptacle and a garage recept just fine and master has gfci.
Start tearing out hair.
One ace in the hole my boss lives in a similar house built my same builder back in the 80's.
There was a second gfci in the garage ,it is behind box's that filled the garage from front to rear ,floor to ceiling.Took 15 min just to clear path to panel.The renters had no clue where or if there were any others in the garage.Lots of wasted time over this.Fortantley there were other problems to be repaired.
So tell be again how your system reduces the service call.
My way if i go to the outlet they say is dead i reset gfci,nicely exsplain gfci and hand them a bill.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

The GFCI is always located at the panel.The builder discloses this at homeowner walk-through.
But more importantly it is on a dedicated 20amp circut which is what has caused less callbacks.
In your way, just jumping off of the nearest lighting circut, more than likely the homeowner is making a trip to the panel to reset the breaker anyway. Especially the way that some people like to wire half of the house on 1 circut. Homeowners don't like breakers tripping in a brand new $500,000 house when they plug-in lights and trimmers and whatever else at the time.
As for the bathrooms, we always have a minimum of 2 bathroom GFCI circuts.
I guess the best way would be to have all GFCI breakers installed. Then they are all located in the same place.
Or, put the outside receptacles on a dedicated circut with a GFCI receptacle at each line-side location.
I can hear the $$$ adding up already.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

I do see some good in your system.In 20 years of mostly residential ,both high end and low, the one problem over gfci is that the customer either forgets or was never told where they are,how to use.There has been very few customers that can't handle reseting the gfci if it is directly at the dead receptacle (meaning use gfci recept. not breaker)When ever it is downstream from another the problem begins.I was brought up not to overload(12 to 14 recepts or lights is plenty).On bathrooms i prefer using the dedicated 1 circuit per bath with gfci receptacle(very unlikely they will have a problem triping for over current).A small flaw in your design is that all there outside x mas lights and land scape lights are on 1 circuit,they could exceed that 20 amps.As to service calls on phone we should be able to exsplain how to first check for triped breaker and second to push that red button on the receptacle.I for one would rather be able to reset a triped gfci at the point of use and not the panel.Should the customer be unable to help them self with either your method or mine i see nothing wrong in charging for a service call.Your method is good but i have made calls on circuits just like it.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

My problem with GFCI recepticals is kids sometimes use'em like toys and wear out the button mechanisms to where the thing literally falls apart.

I do it both ways depending on the expected usage of the area.

 

[tim]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Todd, I wish more contractors would be like the one your talking about. As the electrician, I am seldom around when the home owner takes possesion. A good walk through with the home owner can go a long way. I know of hvac guys who have to go back and show people how to operate the furnace stat and where the air filter is. For $300,000 the general should spend all kinds of time with the new owner going over everything in the house, from smoke batteries to door openner operation.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Combination A/C Disconnect with Built-In GFCI Recetpacle

Down here $500,000 and up will probably earn you a superviser at least half a day every day till its turned over to owner.If its project like several units ,the problems are easy to fix since your still there.The problem houses are the low end remote areas.Trips to them are costly.Who pays depends on what happened.Just because its a new home doesn't mean you get free lessons on how to reset breakers.Maybe i been lucky but have had very few SC on houses i wire over things like gfci.Some of this i eliminate by taking time to talk to the owners while its being ruffed or trimmed.Usually they ask about that funny looking receptacle,save time by exsplaining right now.Also good that they meet you,add ons down the road.Who better to get than the guy that wired it.Sticker with phone # goes on that panel cover.Learned that back when i owned some TV shops.They won't be looking in phone book.