Combination-Type AFCI Breakers

[bphgravity]

As you are all aware, the 2005 NEC contains a requirement for the use of Combination-Type AFCI Devices effective January 1st, 2008. At this time, there are only 4 manufacturers with LISTED combination-type breakers. They are as follows:

EATON (Cutler Hammer): Type CH with AF prefix
Type BR with AF prefix

General Electric: THQLAF2 and THHQLAF2

Siemens: QAF, BAF, MP-AT, QAFH, BAFH, MP-HAT

Square D: QO/QOB ? CAFI and HOM ? CAFI

Be aware that each type will also have identifiable markings on the product that will clearly identify the breaker as a combination type device. If you would like more information on the NEW combination type devices, please download this PDF file from UL: http://www.ul.com/regulators/afci/Dini.pdf

Best of luck in the NEW YEAR, everyone stay safe and take care.

 

[raider1]

Great post Bryan,

Now comes the big question, has anyone actually been able to purchase a combination type AFCI breaker?

Chris

 

[barbeer]

Yes, good info........I was unaware of availability of said breakers and wondering how to enforce something not available.

 

[peter d]

At this time, there are only 4 manufacturers with LISTED combination-type breakers. They are as follows:

Thanks for the info.

I'm a little confused by what you mean by "only 4 manufacturers." Aren't the 4 listed the only manufacturers left in the residential distribution industry?

 

[gndrod]

Thanks for the info.

I'm a little confused by what you mean by "only 4 manufacturers." Aren't the 4 listed the only manufacturers left in the residential distribution industry?

I think there is one in China also.

 

[bphgravity]

Don has pointed out to me a few discrepancies with the model number information I posted above. He is receivng some conflicting models directly from the manufacturer. I obtained my information directly from UL here:

http://database.ul.com/cgi-bin/XYV/...title:asc&query=AWAH<IN>CCN+and+not+GUIDEINFO

We are looking into the issue to see if we can get it resolved. It appears UL might have listed incorrect information.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Now comes the big question, has anyone actually been able to purchase a combination type AFCI breaker?

I held the new Square D QO CAFI in my hand at the St. Paul, MN, Crescent Electric Supply this afternoon. They are on the shelves there, ready to be purchased.

I'm told by another supplier that Siemens and GE combination AFCIs will be arriving at their wholesale house within a week. . . we'll see.

 

[mdshunk]

I needed a combination arc fault today for a service call, and there was ne'er one to be found in my area. They told me maybe next week.

 

[wirebender]

I asked today at my supply and got the "deer in the headlights" look.

 

[kbatku]

They are available & in stock

They are available & in stock

About $50.00 each. With the 2008 code revision that requires them darn near everywhere in a home , that should add about $500-1000 per house, depending.

 

[barbeer]

I was also told last eve that City Electric supply had them locally but in small quantities.

 

[cschmid]

No can find here..we only have one supply house so we have to have them delivered any way..

 

[KJay]

I can only hope that there is enough common sense in the electrical inspecting community to allow contractors to use their existing stock of AFCI cb’s for service and repair jobs in anything other than new work.

 

[barbeer]

I can only hope that there is enough common sense in the electrical inspecting community to allow contractors to use their existing stock of AFCI cb’s for service and repair jobs in anything other than new work.

Common sense should have told you to read the code before posting and know that what you are worried about isn't really a code requirement.

 

[KJay]

barbeer,
Could you please elaborate on your comment?
Why could this not be a potential problem for an electrician when replacing an AFCI cb in an existing installation after 01/01/08?

 

[barbeer]

Sure! My comment was more a retaliation in frustration with a certain way of thinking towards my chosen profession of electrical inspection, a comment that was not well thought out.

Historically service and repair do not invlove inspections, in my region anyway, and I know this because I was a service/repair technician for many years before inspections. That said Inspectors do not have control of the products you install, only yourself. The NEC requires a certain type of AFCI to be installed whether you choose to comply is your business.

 

[KJay]

barbeer,
Sorry if you were offended, but I do not shoot from the hip or make of the cuff remarks in my posts.
I have voiced a legitimate, well-qualified concern due to experience with traditional lack of regional uniform interpretation and inspection practices.
The combination AFCI requirements of 210.12 are in effect as of 01/01/08 and there is short supply of the new required AFCI?s. Jobs are being held up because of this. Understandable for new construction.
However, there is remaining inventory available of the older type AFCI?s, which have been used for years with no proven defect of design. For the purpose of service and repair of existing installations, even when viewing the requirement for the new combination AFCI?s as all encompassing, common sense should prevail, as there should be no issue, practical or otherwise, with allowing the use of the proven existing AFCI technology in these instances. I can say with almost certainty that this will be an issue for some electricians, somewhere in the near future.
Suggesting that one must make the choice to comply with the NEC, is simply not accurate, as it insinuates that there is a desire not to or that somehow it is an option. It is not.
Again, I apologize if you were offended, as it was not my intention.

 

[barbeer]

Apology accepted! It bothers me that all inspectors have a tarnished name with some people because of a few. I can honestly say over my working career I only had 1 inspector that gave me a hard way to go, okay maybe 2.:roll: Granny did tell me that one bad apple(or potato) will ruin the whole bunch!

I agree that enforcing something that is not available will be tricky.

 

[cschmid]

Granny is correct but how deep the stain is set is totally Dependant on the person..I find it easy as I get older because of the stains of life I can no longer distinguish between them all..So I need to re-examine every situation when I am in it..Actually it is because I forgot..:grin: :smile:

 

[BryanMD]

I agree that enforcing something that is not available will be tricky.

from the 'what is an inspector" thread:
[/QUOTE]bedford1 It is not my job to determine if the work has been done in the most expeditious or economical manner but does it comply with the code.

"eees na my job, man"