Commercial estimating

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blueheels2

Senior Member
Location
Raleigh, NC
Occupation
Electrical contractor
I’m currently bidding a remodel. Probably 200 lights altogether. Existing drop ceiling is coming down and new drop ceiling goes in it’s place. I can’t get access to the building. I know that there is lighting and raceway there but have no idea what the layout circuits are. At minimum I’d probably have to pull out the wire and start over. But no idea how much conduit needs to be reworked.

In this situation do you bid a percentage as rework, 25% or 50%, or do you just bid it as all new conduit or wire?

Or write up what you can see and exclude any rework necessary and that’s extra?

Thanks
 
That is the million dollar question. How badly do you want the job? Is it your responsibility to do demolition above the ceiling or just safe off for demolition by others. Myself, I would bid all new conduit and wire branch circuits, along with 32 hours or so of exploration and demolition. Then I would hope to put a person on it that has a brain and can make it a real profitable job. If you end up with a more "action vs. thought" electrician, you could still just break even, but you wouldn't lose money. You also may not get the job, because someone else is always willing to take a bigger risk.
 
I’m supposed to safe it off and someone else does the demo.
I was with you in price or as a complete rewire. If they can’t be bothered to provide a minimum of site photos or allow access they have to understand that’s an increased risk I would think.
And this job is my first foray into the commercial world. Other than the fact it’s a remodel it’s a relatively easy job in that fire alarm, security, and comms are done by others. I just provide raceways.
Manpower is going to suck (finding decent guys) but it does for everyone. That said it’s not something I want to lose my butt on. I’d rather not get it.

I should add I have tons of commercial experience so I understand the work and how to put it in but pricing it is new to me. Residential I’ve got stramlined to openings. Commercial I’m going to have to price 2 or 3 before I can really begin to understand what’s efficient and what’s not for bidding. I’m so slow right now. A professional estimator would probably knock this out in a d at or 1/2 day. Going to take me 3 lol.
 
Is it me or is wiring retail like residential new? I was double their budget on this project. Maybe one day I’ll figure out what I’m missing. Is everyone this cheap or am I just insanely high?
 
blueheels2 said:
Is it me or is wiring retail like residential new? I was double their budget on this project. Maybe one day I’ll figure out what I’m missing. Is everyone this cheap or am I just insanely high?
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is it just light fixtures and their branch circuits? What is the allowed wiring method, and what is the square foot price you came up with?
 
200 lights. Probably 60 circuits plus some low voltage conduit.

They are calling back now and want to change wiring method to Mc cable. Must be the only bid they have or I’m the lowest and still blowing there budget. I’m at about 10$ sq ft.
 
blueheels2 said:
200 lights. Probably 60 circuits plus some low voltage conduit.

They are calling back now and want to change wiring method to Mc cable. Must be the only bid they have or I’m the lowest and still blowing there budget. I’m at about 10$ sq ft.
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That seems low to me. Even for mc, but I’m not looking at the plans.
 
letgomywago said:
Even residential is around that ft price here
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Yeah the last remodel I just finished ended up at 30$ square foot and most of my remodels are 10-12$ square foot. I think I’ll do alright here. It’s about as easy a job as I’m going to get in commercial to cut my teeth on.
 
I didn’t get it. They found someone cheaper I guess. Always cheaper lol. Maybe if I step up my game and use child labor…
 
blueheels2 said:
I didn’t get it. They found someone cheaper I guess. Always cheaper lol. Maybe if I step up my game and use child labor…
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My guess someone operating in either a grey area or someone who is a hard knox make the money on change orders. Your price from what you posted doesn't look like a large profit so any referrals from them or future work I don't think would've been worth the time.
 
I understand the frustration. But I often find myself with the attitude that if someone wants to do the job cheaper, I can't help that. I feel better knowing that if I bid it tight, most likely the guy that won the job, won't make enough money for it to be worthwhile...and I am ok with the other guys losing money.
 
I’m going to have to price 2 or 3 before I can really begin to understand what’s efficient and what’s not for bidding. I’m so slow right now. A professional estimator would probably knock this out in a d at or 1/2 day. Going to take me 3 lol.
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As a retired professional estimator of 42 years, it's going to take a few more....lol
 
Doc13067 said:
I’m attempting to bid my first commercial job with prints. When you guys talk about $10/sq ft is that how you calculate labor and then add up all the materials and then mark up the materials?
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No, that is material, labor, overhead and mark up. That is why we feel it is likely too low. I actually don't square foot a job for actual bid pricing, ever. Only budgets.
 
B&W Estimator said:
How much do you charge for sq. ft. on budgeting? Do you also add in the materials?
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That first question can't be answered. Every job is different. I don't know what other people do, but I usually write down the major components of the job. Like, gear, demolition, site lighting, generator, interior lighting, fire alarm data, temporary power, general power. If there are unique things like, machinery medical equipment, data. Then I wing it. I will either assign direct dollars, or square foot costs to each item. I don't allow myself to dwell on it too much. too much thinking will actually mess me up. I figure, if I am high on one item, I am probably low on another.
 
Strathead said:
That first question can't be answered. Every job is different. I don't know what other people do, but I usually write down the major components of the job. Like, gear, demolition, site lighting, generator, interior lighting, fire alarm data, temporary power, general power. If there are unique things like, machinery medical equipment, data. Then I wing it. I will either assign direct dollars, or square foot costs to each item. I don't allow myself to dwell on it too much. too much thinking will actually mess me up. I figure, if I am high on one item, I am probably low on another.
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Thank you.
 
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