commercial kitchen gfi

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Trouyano

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If a commercial kitchen has three seperate rooms and only one room has a sink in it, do you need to put GFI in all three rooms?
 
Going by the definition of a commercial kitchen (article 210.8(B)(2) I would say that you only need GFCI in the room with the sink.
 
Commerical and institutional kitchens - for the purpose of this section, a kitchen is an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking.

not sure if that helps.... not sure how big an area is... :)
 
The other factor is safety, most non-dwelling kitchens contain poorly maintained equipment, damaged electrical cords, wet floors and worst of all, employees without proper electrical safety training...
 
mdshunk said:
Large commercial kitchens are often many rooms. It's all still the kitchen... baking room, prep area, meat station, etc.
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Is that your opinion or is that NEC. I agree there ought to be GFCI everywhere mentioned but I don't believe the NEC requires it.
 
If there is any food prep, or any equipment for food prep in any of the three rooms, then it's part of the kitchen. Most kitchen area's have wash down walls
 
chicar said:
If there is any food prep, or any equipment for food prep in any of the three rooms, then it's part of the kitchen. Most kitchen area's have wash down walls
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I think this can be debated since the article does state an AREA with sink and food prep..... It does not say a ROOM, you may be correct.

A little ambiguous I might add.
 
I'm sure most people can tell what a kitchen looks like, I'm just not sure if people are just trying to save a buck on gfi protection if it is not required by code, I personally would have a hard time not installing one in a kitchen like area...
 
iwire said:
I don't see any gray area, it's all kitchen.
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If it is all kitchen why do they define kitchen with a sink. Let's say there is an area two rooms away from the kichen with the sink that grinds coffee (no sink). If you consider this kitchen area then you may as well take the sink out of the definition.
 
480sparky said:
If you are asking how 'they' define a kitchem, why not ask 'them.'

That would be your local AHJ.
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That's a simple solution but it does not mean tha his interpretation would be correct.

mdshunk said:
The "area" still has a sink, without regard to whether the coffee is ground in a seperate room in the kitchen area.
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Heck any restaurant has a sink so any room in the entire restaurant, no matter where it is, is kitchen if they prepare food. I don't buy that argument. I think the code needs to be more specific either in their definition or their wording-- that's all I am trying to say.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
That's a simple solution but it does not mean tha his interpretation would be correct.


Heck any restaurant has a sink so any room in the entire restaurant, no matter where it is, is kitchen if they prepare food.
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Yeah, but you don't prepare food in the dining room or the men's restroom, for instance.

Are we seriously bickering over what a kitchen is? :-?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
That's a simple solution but it does not mean tha his interpretation would be correct.
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Of course it would be correct, the NEC left it up to the AHJs by using the word area instead of room.

Had they said 'room' it would include a situation with a kitchen on one side of the room and dinning on the other.

By using the word 'area' the inspector can cut a room in half if conditions warrant it.

On the other hand if a kitchen has many rooms the inspector can say 'area' extends beyond single rooms.

IMO the CMP tried to give the AHJ some flexibility to adjust to job conditions.

BTW, usually there will be small hand washing sinks in every room of a commercial kitchen. :)


Heck any restaurant has a sink so any room in the entire restaurant, no matter where it is, is kitchen if they prepare food.
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Only if the inspector is a moron. :D

I think most of us recognize a large commercial kitchen when we see it and can tell the difference from a dinning area.

IMO the real reason for the definition is to help us recognize the small commercial kitchens like you might find in a office building break room.
 
if this was a new building, I would ask during the plan review stage to show all kitchen areas on plan, to prevent arguments in the field
 
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