Commercial Kitchens

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Dean83169

Dean83169

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I am curious what others have run into when installing outlets for commercial kitchen appliances. I was thinking of installing single outlets since they will be behind the units but the code states all outlets to be GFI. I understand the intent but it would be much harder to reset if behind the unit. GFI breakers for a GE bolt in are to expensive. I will end up installing the GFI's but what have others encountered.
 
I know this applies for residential, and I am not as knowledge in commercial, but I thought GFI protection was only required for recept. serving the countertop, which you are not in this circumstance. Outlets supplied solely for appliance do not have the same GFI requirements. In a home, kitchen recepts. serving wall space are not required GFI protection the same as those serving the countertop (unless for some odd reason you are 6' from a sink).
 
Generally I just use the standard GFI's with a few exceptions.


1. Areas behind grills, fryers and such I use standard duplex recpt. and a GFI breaker. The reason is that I have had to go back and replace too many GFI's that got trashed by the abuse common in such areas. Remember, the equipment will be moved for cleaning on a regular (often nightly) basis, and I assure you it will not be handled gently. Cords will be jerked out by moving equipment, equipment will be slammed back against the wall, etc. It tends to do a bit of damage. Not to mention the fact that the recpts are going to get mucked up with grease. Replacing them over time is not uncommon and it's cheaper to replace a standard recept.

2. Anything related to the computer systems you'll need a GFI breaker. I've yet to find an IG - GFI recept. at my local supply house, and if they do exist, I don't want to know what they cost. :)
 
You are right about the single recept not meeting code. I go to the extra expense of the gfi breaker most of the time. QOB 120 gfi are $110. from my supplier.

For counter top appliances I use the 20 amp gfi recepts.

I have put gfi recepts behind appliances. The way I look at it is that if the unit tripped the gfi there is a problem with the unit that needs to be address. So it's probably going to be pulled out anyway.

I don't think that many appliance manufacturers have figured out their equipment will be protected by a gfi circuit. The manufacturer could easily put a test and reset button on the front of their equipment.

Now this is tacky - never seen it and never done it - you could put a whole banks of faceless gfi recepts under the panel, then just put a standard recept for the appliance that is fed through the faceless. Resetting the gfi would be easy as long as the faceless recepts were identified.

If I understand the code right, and this doesn't make any sence to me, only 15 and 20 amp 125v require the gfi protection. So you could have a 20 recept next to a 30 recept and only the 20 amp needs to be gfi.

Anyway - just some of my thoughts.
 
360Youth said:
I know this applies for residential, and I am not as knowledge in commercial, but I thought GFI protection was only required for recept. serving the countertop, which you are not in this circumstance. Outlets supplied solely for appliance do not have the same GFI requirements. In a home, kitchen recepts. serving wall space are not required GFI protection the same as those serving the countertop (unless for some odd reason you are 6' from a sink).
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Take a look at 210.8(B)(2)
 
Yeah the problem is that its all wired with 3 and 4 wire homeruns. The 1 pole breakers are 122.oo and the 2 poles are 221.oo, the gfi's are 11.00. I will change them out the GFI's so I will need like 35 of them since its a big commercial kitchen and everything is on its own circuit.
 
Dean83169 said:
Yeah the problem is that its all wired with 3 and 4 wire homeruns. The 1 pole breakers are 122.oo and the 2 poles are 221.oo, the gfi's are 11.00. I will change them out the GFI's so I will need like 35 of them since its a big commercial kitchen and everything is on its own circuit.
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35x11 adds up pretty quick, not to mention the labor of changing out that many devices vs. how many breakers?
 
Unless I'm confused you shouldn't need the $221 double pole per code. Only 15 and 20 amp 125V needs to be gfi protected.
 
-marty,

Dean wrote that the homeruns for the 125 V 15 & 20 A receptacles are sharing neutrals.
 
-marty said:
I have put gfi recepts behind appliances. The way I look at it is that if the unit tripped the gfi there is a problem with the unit that needs to be address. So it's probably going to be pulled out anyway.
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Right you are if they want expensive breakers they can pay for expensive breakers.

Things like this should be on the job specifications. Anything not speced. just needs to meet code.
 
growler said:
Right you are if they want expensive breakers they can pay for expensive breakers.

Things like this should be on the job specifications. Anything not speced. just needs to meet code.
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Thats where developing a working relationship with your GC, customer and engineer come in handy. I'd say 8 times out of 10 I can sell this one as an extra by giving a full explanation and some past examples as evidence.
 
kitchen GFCI

kitchen GFCI

I don't know if any other areas might have done so, but the AHJ in our largest muncipality has exempted outlets for specific equipment if the outlets are not accessible due to equipment blocking.
They may be the only AHJ doing so.
 
-marty said:
Unless I'm confused you shouldn't need the $221 double pole per code. Only 15 and 20 amp 125V needs to be gfi protected.
Click to expand...

I have 3 and 4 wire homeruns which would require the 3 wires to be on a 2 pole breaker and 4 wire on a 3 pole.
 
Yeah I changed them all out, got all the GFI"S for 11 bucks a piece. Only took about an hour, but it was listed in the specs on a one liner. On the drawing it specifically had which outlets were GFI and had an outlet symbol for the rest. Only the general outlets were marked with this GFI so thats what I did. The AHJ picked up on it and let me know before my final. The small one liner on the prints is what had the owner covered. Not a big deal but at least its fixed, and after 22 years doing this I learned one more thing,,,
 
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