Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

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J

JROD

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Hi All,

Most of my experience is as a residential contractor. I will be going to give an estimate on a commercial job and I would really appreciate some advice on two items:
1. The customer says that he has a 50? by 70? bay with 30? ceiling that has inadequate lighting. He says the temperature should never drop below 50 degrees inside the bay (I don?t know about that). He needs at least 15? clearance. He asked me to recommend lighting to him, cost is not as much a concern as having the light comes on fairly quickly, and good bay illumination and he wants fairly reliable bulbs that do not need to be replaced every six months.
2. He only has one receptacle in the bay, the main panel board is full, but the previous owner, according to the current guy, had some sort of ?3 phase 360 amp contraption? that the previous owner had removed at the cut off. The new owner wants me to replace the cut off with a sub panel, using the existing wire and cap off the 3rd phase at the main and the sub-panel. I haven?t been able to find anything in the code about this, but besides the code, I would like to make sure the job is done right and that it is a quality professional job. Any suggestions?

I would like to have my ducks in order before I go out to meet with him next week and be able to give him fairly educated recommendations. I have been doing research on this, but I feel that you can?t beat experience.

Thanks,
Jos?
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

For the light fixture to come on pretty fast and be up 15', I would go with some fixtures that have T5 high output lamps. They are good replacements for what used to always be a high pressure sodium or metal halide application. The T5's lamps are fluorescent and come on immediately.

Why not install a 3 phase sub panel? Don't waste the benefit of the 3rd phase's capacity.
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

I can not agree more with both Ron's points.

The T-5s work great, come on immediately and use less energy.

In my opinion the customer is crazy if they do not have you install a 3 phase sub panel.

A 225 amp Main breaker 3 phase panel is not that costly (as commercial equipment goes) and will keep you from having to change the original 360 amp feeder overcurrent protection.

More of personal opinion than any rules but IMO "Load Centers" are for dwelling units, commercial jobs deserve "Panel boards"

To me a Load center is easily identified as it will be only 14.5" wide and 3.5" deep.

A panelboard is usually at least 21" wide and 6.5" deep.

This added space is a big help with the constant changes that happen in commercial space.

JMO, Bob
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

"To me a Load center is easily identified as it will be only 14.5" wide and 3.5" deep.

A panelboard is usually at least 21" wide and 6.5" deep.

This added space is a big help with the constant changes that happen in commercial space.

JMO, Bob"

I think this is a topic that needs more consideration when commercial work is being installed. There is no code about loadcenters or panelboards being occupancy sensitive. These types of panels can be interchanged between commercial and dwellings freely. But...

Panelboards with the increased gutter space is a large consideration. It seems to me that there are not as many people out there who are using Art 312 for their reference as should be. And fewer yet who understand how to use Tables 312.6(A)&(B). I say this because of the responses I get in the field and in class - "312, I didn't even know there was an Art 312, I always looked in the Art for panelboards and could not find the info" That is the kind of typical response I usually hear.
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

I agree with the panel boards vs loadcenters on anything commercial or industrial, with a few exceptions. In my book a load center is fine for the small office area that gets built onto a warehouse, or for a little kitchen area in an office. Just depends. Any large office - heck no, use a panel board with bolt on's. There is no code to back me up on this but just an old dog's feeling for right way and wrong way to do things.
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

I agree with the panel boards vs loadcenters on anything commercial or industrial, with a few exceptions. In my book a load center is fine for the small office area that gets built onto a warehouse, or for a little kitchen area in an office. Just depends. Any large office - heck no, use a panel board with bolt on's. There is no code to back me up on this but just an old dog's feeling for right way and wrong way to do things.
Click to expand...
We couldn't agree more about using panelboards vs. loadcenters in commercial and industrial applications. The only real limiting factor for us is cost. Some clients don't really care about bolt on breakers and gutter space. They do care about the bottom line, price. We always encourage them to opt for quality over price but it is sometimes difficult especially when your competitor is installing the cheapest junk he can find.
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

Mike I also agree your examples are good ones where the use of load center can be a good plan and they hide into a standard wall.

Even still I would stick with 3 phase if it is already available.

[ November 20, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

If this is a delta 3-phase, then maybe a single phase panel if you don't anticipate 3-phase loads. If this is a wye 3-phase, then it is most responsible to install the 3-phase panel and try to keep the loads balanced.
 
Re: Commercial Lighting & Sub-Panel

For the lighting, I would hang 2x4 6 lamp T8 fixtures. They are very efficient and cost-effective. T5 lamps are great, but they are pretty expensive.
 
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