Compact Fluorescent Power Quality

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JJWalecka

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
I read an article in Electrical Contractor Magazine. It was about Compact Fluorescent lamps and there potential impact on the utility power factor.

Did anyone else read this article?

I didn?t realize that Compact Fluorescent lamps could have such an impact.


Feedback is welcome.
 
wirenut1980

wirenut1980

Senior Member
Location
Plainfield, IN
Good article! I agree with the author that utilities could take a hit financially if enough people start using the low power factor CFL's. If the financial impact is large enough, you can bet they will pass that cost on to the consumer.

The questions that need to be answered are:

1) Will the low power factor load drawn by CFL's be enough to affect the overall power factor of residences?

2) And will the CFL load be enough where the voltage waveform will be distorted by harmonics?

Right now there are many utilities that offer rebates for these low PF CFL's. And they are losing money on the low power factor.
 
Besoeker

Besoeker

Senior Member
Location
UK
JJWalecka said:
I didn?t realize that Compact Fluorescent lamps could have such an impact.
Feedback is welcome.
Click to expand...
Power factor comes in two flavors.
Displacement PF is that typically seen in a motor where the current lags the voltage.
Distortion PF is where a piece of equipment takes non-sinusoidal current. CFLs, like most electronic devices, fall into this category. The non-sinusoidal currents results in a higher RMS value for a given power. In that sense, it is a reduction in power factor if you define PF as kW/kVA.
There is no easy solution to correct low distortion PF, particularly with single-phase loads.
But it's not a problem peculiar to just CFLs. Televisions, chargers, computers, printers, monitors, dimmers, etc. are all culprits that have been around for some time.
 
cschmid

cschmid

Senior Member
Location
Northern cold country
:D
iwire said:
It must be a bummer to always see the worst in everything.
Click to expand...

LMAO Oh Bob why should I change my strips now..I have never been a supporter of CFL's..Why Start Now..My Real issue is that CFL's are bad for the enviroment..they have same amount of mecury as any other 4ft bulb and they can be thrown in your house hold garbage..the pollution created does not offset the cost savings that is promoted by the utility companies..these are my own opinions and am happy to share them with you..:D
 
rexowner

rexowner

Senior Member
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrician
cschmid said:
:D

LMAO Oh Bob why should I change my strips now..I have never been a supporter of CFL's..Why Start Now..My Real issue is that CFL's are bad for the enviroment..they have same amount of mecury as any other 4ft bulb and they can be thrown in your house hold garbage..the pollution created does not offset the cost savings that is promoted by the utility companies..these are my own opinions and am happy to share them with you..:D
Click to expand...

There is good reason to believe that your opinion
that CFLs are bad for the environment may be
overstated, or even incorrect:

According to the EPA and DOE:
> If all 290 million CFLs sold in 2007 were sent to a
> landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they would
> add 0.13 metric tons, or 0.1 percent, to U.S. mercury
> emissions caused by humans.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

The vast majority of mercury in the environment comes
from burning coal, which I personally have nothing against.
However, if your concern is with mercury in the
environment, coal is 100's of times what CFLs will
ever be.

To extrapolate, I would bet that CFLs, save much more than 0.1% of the
electricity generated by coal in the US, and thereby cause lower emissions from coal.
Therefore, CFLs result in less mercury in the environment, not
more mercury.
 
Last edited:
cschmid

cschmid

Senior Member
Location
Northern cold country
rexowner said:
There is good reason to believe that your opinion
that CFLs are bad for the environment may be
overstated, or even incorrect:

According to the EPA and DOE:
> If all 290 million CFLs sold in 2007 were sent to a
> landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) ? they would
> add 0.13 metric tons, or 0.1 percent, to U.S. mercury
> emissions caused by humans.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

The vast majority of mercury in the environment comes
from burning coal, which I personally have nothing against.
However, if your concern is with mercury in the
environment, coal is 100's of times what CFLs will
ever be.

To extrapolate, I would bet that CFLs, save much more than 0.1% of the
electricity generated by coal in the US, and thereby cause lower emissions from coal.
Therefore, CFLs result in less mercury in the environment, not
more mercury.
Click to expand...

Now you do know mercury is only a small part of the pollution inside of every CFL is a ballast and other compenants..So I may have over stated the amount but the fact still remains that the possible or I would assume the majority of the 290million will end up in the land fill..

We are on energy conservation and renewable energy kicks in this country..we constantly get the cart before the horse..I believe we need to do something but my solution and what is being practiced is different..

there are allot of energy monsters out there and I believe we as home owners do not consume the majority of the electricity..so lets look at the real culprits and put some energy saving implementations upon them..
 
cschmid

cschmid

Senior Member
Location
Northern cold country
now for the sake of the thread i do not want to get off track..because we are talking another issue with CFL's..But if you want to go into alterantive enrgy forms and energy savings then we can move on..

As I am also against wind turbines as a form of energy producing..All I can say is if you are in favor of wind turbine and wind farms please go and rent a house by a wind farm and stay there for awhile..If you tore down a house in your neighborhood and built a wind turbine there, how would all of you in the neighborhood feel..So why as a rural resident should I be forced into living next to one..Do they force you in the city to live next to one..So why is it different for us rural dewellers..

So I do have opinions and I believe I look at all sides..sometimes the short term is not very good in the long run..I believe we are looking at two items that only have short term benefits and I believe they do not out weight the long consequences...because we are saving does that mean we can use twice as many..
 
JJWalecka

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
cschmid said:
now for the sake of the thread i do not want to get off track..because we are talking another issue with CFL's..But if you want to go into alterantive enrgy forms and energy savings then we can move on..

As I am also against wind turbines as a form of energy producing..All I can say is if you are in favor of wind turbine and wind farms please go and rent a house by a wind farm and stay there for awhile..If you tore down a house in your neighborhood and built a wind turbine there, how would all of you in the neighborhood feel..So why as a rural resident should I be forced into living next to one..Do they force you in the city to live next to one..So why is it different for us rural dewellers..

So I do have opinions and I believe I look at all sides..sometimes the short term is not very good in the long run..I believe we are looking at two items that only have short term benefits and I believe they do not out weight the long consequences...because we are saving does that mean we can use twice as many..
Click to expand...

I respect your opinion though I disagree with some of what you posted. I love the wilderness and appreciate natures beauty but there most be a comprimise for the greater good.

Off topic

How do you feel about nuclear power? I read that it might be the cheapest option for us.

JJ
 
cschmid

cschmid

Senior Member
Location
Northern cold country
OK off topic ...

If we had a better way of storing the waste I would be happier..Yet for the amount of electricity we need I can really see few options in this arena..I am on the fence here because technology has come along ways..

our country has lots of rivers and these rivers never dry up why not smaller hydro generator..they do not all have to be the size of the hover and we can produce as much as a wind turbine and do it more constantly..I am also in favor of solar in area of large amounts of sun..

then my next question is perpetual motion..gyro,s..anyone researched them..

ah now back to question..so by promoting something that saves energy our greedy society will to a degree assume that we can use more of them so then do we really save anything..

as far as wind turbines go..if they are only 30% efficient and really are dependent on low velocity winds, why are we really promoting them..As I read the wind currents are ever changing and with the increased deforestation, the wind speeds are actually increasing..
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
I don't like CFL's because they take too long to warm up, and there is nothing better than incandescent light as far as light quality is concerned.
 
JJWalecka

JJWalecka

Senior Member
Location
New England
peter d said:
I don't like CFL's because they take too long to warm up, and there is nothing better than incandescent light as far as light quality is concerned.
Click to expand...

I think that CFL?s are comparable in light quality. Don?t the foot-candles match up pretty close, with equal wattage?

JJ
 
robbietan

robbietan

Senior Member
Location
Antipolo City
current harmonics are also a product of the CFL, as the article states:

Low power factor results in harmonic distortion and reduces power quality, and this energy imbalance could lead to extensive and expensive corrective actions by utility companies.

here in the Philippines, these CFLs have to pass a harmonic standard (I believe the standard is 15% current THD) before it can go on the market.
 
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