Alwayslearningelec
Senior Member
- Location
- NJ
- Occupation
- Estimator
Are the concrete bases for pole lighting usually the electricians responsibility? If so, an someone give a brief overview of what's involved from your experience.
Concrete Bases for Site Lighting
- Thread starter Alwayslearningelec
- Start date
- Status
concrete guy: digs a hole, puts a sonnet tube in, complains the electrician is holding him up
electrician: shows up before he even has a signed contract cause the gc's supt. is filling up his phone telling him he's holding up the job (that he doesn't even have yet), stubs out pipe in 2 directions, tells the concrete guy to please put the anchor bolts in so the post will point in the right direction, puts in a totally functionless ground rod for the 22 yr old engineer's drawings with a piece of copper that will possibly be there when he comes back to ditch witch the rest of the pipe later
that's about it. later you go back, connect the dots, put in a few in ground jboxes here and there, size the wire for vd, add a contactor, photo cells, whatever according to drawings, dig up smashed conduit that the curb and gutter guys and landscapers didn't tell you about, get your money and run
electrician: shows up before he even has a signed contract cause the gc's supt. is filling up his phone telling him he's holding up the job (that he doesn't even have yet), stubs out pipe in 2 directions, tells the concrete guy to please put the anchor bolts in so the post will point in the right direction, puts in a totally functionless ground rod for the 22 yr old engineer's drawings with a piece of copper that will possibly be there when he comes back to ditch witch the rest of the pipe later
that's about it. later you go back, connect the dots, put in a few in ground jboxes here and there, size the wire for vd, add a contactor, photo cells, whatever according to drawings, dig up smashed conduit that the curb and gutter guys and landscapers didn't tell you about, get your money and run
William1978
Senior Member
- Location
- N.C.
It has alwas been in our contract to pour the pool bases but we would alwas sub that part out.
Buck Parrish
Senior Member
- Location
- NC & IN
Nakukla sounds like real life.
However we have done some and poured the concrete our selves. Useing the round card board and some we have built with ply wood. Stub the pvc up and out.
We make a ply wood patern as a template for the bolts to go in the bottom of the light poles. With the pvc in the middle.
However we have done some and poured the concrete our selves. Useing the round card board and some we have built with ply wood. Stub the pvc up and out.
We make a ply wood patern as a template for the bolts to go in the bottom of the light poles. With the pvc in the middle.
William1978
Senior Member
- Location
- N.C.
I would have to tell them that if the conduits and bolts are not where they are not supose to be than you don't get paid.SEO said:
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
We do the bases. Drill hole with auger truck, sona tube, rebar cage, pvc stubbed out the side of the tube, ground bar with #6 shoved in the middle, plywood bolt template with bolts lined up how you want it, pvc sticking out the hole in the middle of the template, #6 from the ground rod wrapped around the pvc sticking out same hole, pour concrete, vibrate it, tap sides to release bubbles.
You get the tube in lengths and cut it with circular saw to length needed. Square forms out of plywood to sit from just below grade to desired height if square poles are spec.ed. You'll want to oil the insides of the plywood forms so the can be removed easily. Usually you can use 2 metal 55 gallon drums stacked 1 on top of the other for in ground portion of square poles. You can buy the rebar cages made to order.
plans should have a detail for the pole bases
You get the tube in lengths and cut it with circular saw to length needed. Square forms out of plywood to sit from just below grade to desired height if square poles are spec.ed. You'll want to oil the insides of the plywood forms so the can be removed easily. Usually you can use 2 metal 55 gallon drums stacked 1 on top of the other for in ground portion of square poles. You can buy the rebar cages made to order.
plans should have a detail for the pole bases
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
We plant precast bases that we make ourselves
I usually have to do them for logistical reasons.
They look a whole lot better when the concrete guys do then. They strip them "hot" (still "wet") and finish them nicely. I don't have the patience so I can usually get away with an ok job.
1. Have the holes drilled. I like to trench first to elimnate a lot of hand work. Throw some plywood pieces down over the tranch ar the sides of the hole or just scoop the spillage into the hole (leave room).
2. Put the rebar cage in place CENTERED and PLUMB in the hole. You don't want to wrestle with it when pouring concrete. Have cage built 6" smaller than the finished size. I use 24" minimum sonotube to leave room for conduits/bolts. Don't have a rebar ring put on the bottom. Leave legs you can drive/push into the ground to secure/stablize it. Top of cage is 3" from top of concrete.
3. Install conduits stubbed up a few inches above where you will need them (bottom of hand hole) Make sure the come up plumb and centered. Duct tape conduits together to keep them in place during backfill.Make SURE that the elbows have glued on tightly. If there is any doubt I
wrap them with duct tape. The concrete is brutal on those joints and you do NOT want to stop and try to fix one. Tape ALL conduit ends.
4. Install bonding wire via acorn clamp to rebar and rods (if some clown requires rods.)
5. Screw (from the outside w/ 2 1/2" DW screws) a 2x4 square form about 6"-12" above the bottom of the sonotube. This will hold the bottom in place. The more tube you put into the ground, the more stable it will be. If you have more than 15-20 to do, you might want to stake/screw them in place. Level it.
I typically don't secure the tops because I am there making sure nothing goes wrong. If you want to, or if you have a bunch of them, you can build another square form arond the top and stake it down.
Form oil DOES help when stripping the tube but I usually forget it.
6. Pour concrete (a little under 1 yard per 24" round, 5" deep, 30" high) base. Start slow, keeping cage and conduits centered. You will have left some dirt by each base where the trench meets the hole. When the concrete gets to that level you can shovel some in so it doesn't splooge out.
Use a palm sander, a sawzall with no blade or a baseball bat repeatedly on the exterior of the tube to fill the voids. Use a drywall potato masher on the top to tamp the rocks down well.
At the right time, slip your pre assembled templated anchor bolts in. I make plywood templates. The masonite ones that most mfg's send are worthless. Turn bottoms of anchor blots 90 degrees to each other to minimize 6the chance of hanging up on the cage/conduits/bond wire. Make sure they are square (if you are using square poles). If the concrete is too wet, the bolts will want to sink in. It's not the end of the world but if you prevent it you will save some prep work.
7. 4" putty knife will finish the tops in an acceptable manner but not until it's ready to be finished. Too wet and you will just chase the lines around. I'm not sure how they get that nice rounded outside edge unless the strip the form while its still managable. Maybe some special tool. A hand edger doesn't works because it's square.
8. Have a helper strip the tubes
Part two: Installing the poles .......later
They look a whole lot better when the concrete guys do then. They strip them "hot" (still "wet") and finish them nicely. I don't have the patience so I can usually get away with an ok job.
1. Have the holes drilled. I like to trench first to elimnate a lot of hand work. Throw some plywood pieces down over the tranch ar the sides of the hole or just scoop the spillage into the hole (leave room).
2. Put the rebar cage in place CENTERED and PLUMB in the hole. You don't want to wrestle with it when pouring concrete. Have cage built 6" smaller than the finished size. I use 24" minimum sonotube to leave room for conduits/bolts. Don't have a rebar ring put on the bottom. Leave legs you can drive/push into the ground to secure/stablize it. Top of cage is 3" from top of concrete.
3. Install conduits stubbed up a few inches above where you will need them (bottom of hand hole) Make sure the come up plumb and centered. Duct tape conduits together to keep them in place during backfill.Make SURE that the elbows have glued on tightly. If there is any doubt I
wrap them with duct tape. The concrete is brutal on those joints and you do NOT want to stop and try to fix one. Tape ALL conduit ends.
4. Install bonding wire via acorn clamp to rebar and rods (if some clown requires rods.)
5. Screw (from the outside w/ 2 1/2" DW screws) a 2x4 square form about 6"-12" above the bottom of the sonotube. This will hold the bottom in place. The more tube you put into the ground, the more stable it will be. If you have more than 15-20 to do, you might want to stake/screw them in place. Level it.
I typically don't secure the tops because I am there making sure nothing goes wrong. If you want to, or if you have a bunch of them, you can build another square form arond the top and stake it down.
Form oil DOES help when stripping the tube but I usually forget it.
6. Pour concrete (a little under 1 yard per 24" round, 5" deep, 30" high) base. Start slow, keeping cage and conduits centered. You will have left some dirt by each base where the trench meets the hole. When the concrete gets to that level you can shovel some in so it doesn't splooge out.
Use a palm sander, a sawzall with no blade or a baseball bat repeatedly on the exterior of the tube to fill the voids. Use a drywall potato masher on the top to tamp the rocks down well.
At the right time, slip your pre assembled templated anchor bolts in. I make plywood templates. The masonite ones that most mfg's send are worthless. Turn bottoms of anchor blots 90 degrees to each other to minimize 6the chance of hanging up on the cage/conduits/bond wire. Make sure they are square (if you are using square poles). If the concrete is too wet, the bolts will want to sink in. It's not the end of the world but if you prevent it you will save some prep work.
7. 4" putty knife will finish the tops in an acceptable manner but not until it's ready to be finished. Too wet and you will just chase the lines around. I'm not sure how they get that nice rounded outside edge unless the strip the form while its still managable. Maybe some special tool. A hand edger doesn't works because it's square.
8. Have a helper strip the tubes
Part two: Installing the poles .......later
I'm liking that idea.
In a couple weeks I am going to attempt to relocate 5 poles and bases. I have to pull the bases out to make room for a parking structure so I was thinking I could pluck them out, drop them in another hole and fill with slurry.
In the past I have jack hammered bases below grade and they paved over them. This time I want to try something new. It will be labor intensive but will save a couple thousand dollars in concrete, rebar and dump fees.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Unless the last person that did those bases does them like me. Mine are more like upside-down mushrooms. 24" sonotube above ground, and about a 5' around concrete footer underground. Keeps the poles from getting out of whack over the years from snowplowing.220/221 said:
Cavie
Senior Member
- Location
- SW Florida
220/221 said:
We build roads. We install the 2" pvc along the roadway then come back and install the bases. It takes less than 1 hour to dig a hole, (with back hoe) cut the pipe, set and level the base, connect the pipe and backfill with dirt and your done.
- Location
- Massachusetts
horsegoer said:
As you can see it's all over the map, GCs, Engineers ECs all handle it differently.
I have been on jobs where we (the EC) handles it all.
Other jobs where we had to provide precast pole bases but the excavating contractor had to move and place them.
Other jobs where the bases where done entirely by someone else and we just had to pipe to them and place the pole.
It should all be spelled out in the contract and if it's not you should add it to yours.
The issue of who places the anchor bolts can be a big one if they get installed incorrectly.
dduffee260
Senior Member
- Location
- Texas
We have done it both ways. We do usually dig the holes. The trick is dig a pilot hole first then dig through it with the trencher. Then dig the hole out to 5 ft, put the cages in and install pipe and ground wire. If you are going to pour that day then get ready if it is the next day then place pallets over the hole. Since we own our own equipment we can do this when it is best for our needs.
We set about 100 light poles a year and this seems to have worked best for us. What I can tell you works the worst is waiting until the end of the job after curbs are poured to stub your pipes up. That seems to be the most wasteful thing a contractor can do.
We set about 100 light poles a year and this seems to have worked best for us. What I can tell you works the worst is waiting until the end of the job after curbs are poured to stub your pipes up. That seems to be the most wasteful thing a contractor can do.
Cow
Senior Member
- Location
- Eastern Oregon
- Occupation
- Electrician
220/221 said:
We use a concrete vibrator along with a rubber mallet on the sides.
220/221 said:
Concrete supply houses carry radiused edgers for different size sonotubes, 24" is what we use.
We typically run a small trowel across the top and get it smoothed out, edge it, trowel it some more if the edger made a ridge. Then we put a nice broom finish on it. It definitely pays to edge it sooner than later, you don't want to fight the rocks displaced by the edger when the concrete is half dry.
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