Concrete encased electrode in separate footing

[hmspe]

I have a contractor asking for approval to pour a separate "footing" to add a CEE on a project under construction. 2005 NEC. This is a 4 unit condo project which passed the "Footing/Ufer" city inspection, so provisions for a CEE must have been made in the building's footing. The builder installed two ground rods instead, which I have declined to approve. The City Inspector has asked for a letter from the PE (that's me) approving adding a new trench and "footing" in place of chipping into the existing footing. I can't/won't personally approve chipping out the existing footing, and apparently there is some issue with getting the Structural Engineer's approval. The building is well into drywall phase.

I don't particularly like the separate/unused footing idea, mostly because there will be no weight of the building on it, but thought I'd ask here for input. If this works well and/or is generally accepted, or if you have other comments I'd like to hear them.

Thanks,

Martin

 

[cpal]

This is a great question because the form guys pour all the time before the electrician gets to the ufer.

my question is if you pour a wall or a bunch of concrete to install 20' of 1/2" rod or lay #4 in the pour is it a foundation or a footing if a building is not erected upon it????

 

[lowryder88h]

Cee

Cee

What we as inspectors have to do is make sure your building inspector does'nt approve the footings unti an electrical permit is taken out. In our town we've done this w/ the fire dept when it comes to oil burners. So why can't we get together w/ our building dept?? It seems like common sense, but today most common sense is no common sense at all.:grin:

 

[wirenut1980]

IMO, the electrons do not care if the concrete is part of the actual building's foundation or not, as long as it meets the requirements of 250.52(A)(3). Interesting solution to say the least.

 

[hmspe]

IMO, the electrons do not care if the concrete is part of the actual building's foundation or not, as long as it meets the requirements of 250.52(A)(3). Interesting solution to say the least.

It really hinges on whether an added trench with rebar and concrete is "a concrete foundation or footing" if there's no intention of having a building over it.

 

[hillbilly]

IMHO....Whether it has a building on it or not does not change the fact that it is a footing.
I can hear someone digging this up at some future time asking..."Why the h*** did they pour a footer here for"?
"Walks like a duck, Quacks like a duck, must be a duck".
steve

 

[cpal]

IMHO....Whether it has a building on it or not does not change the fact that it is a footing.
I can hear someone digging this up at some future time asking..."Why the h*** did they pour a footer here for"?
"Walks like a duck, Quacks like a duck, must be a duck".
steve

I smell proposal for 2011,

Why would you pour 20+ feet of of dismembered concrete footing/foundation when the hole is 1/2 way down to set rods or plates???

 

[jshaw]

In my jurisdiction I am also a certified building inspector and I do all the footing inspection to make sure the CEE is installed. However, there are times when the framers come in and for some reason cut off the rebar or wire intended for the CEE. In this situation I require the contractor to pour an additional footing alongside the orginal footing to install a new CEE.

 

[petersonra]

In my jurisdiction I am also a certified building inspector and I do all the footing inspection to make sure the CEE is installed. However, there are times when the framers come in and for some reason cut off the rebar or wire intended for the CEE. In this situation I require the contractor to pour an additional footing alongside the orginal footing to install a new CEE.

If it is immediately adjacent to the original footing and is poured against the original footing, the new chunk of concrete would seem to become part of the original footing, since it is one chunk after the concrete cures. this seems code compliant on the face of it.