concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

twistin214

Member
Location
ohio/colorado
is it correct to say with 20' #4 in 250.52(3) concrete encased electrode that there should not be any more ground rods driven on residential service? thanks and i apologize if this gets repetitive for some of the seasoned pros.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Larry is correct. On a service it is required to supplement the water main electrode with one other electrode. Since you have a CEE you will not need any additional electrodes, so you can save your money on the ground rods. Also I would add that if the CEE is available during the construction of the dwelling than it must be used.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

twistin, probably does not need to be stated, but we are talking NEC here.....in some of our areas POCO requires a ground rod to their meter sockets regardless as does one local jurisdiction.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

I wish we could tie the driven GEC in the meter base. Since it's sealed, the connection is considered inaccessible.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Originally posted by LarryFine:
I wish we could tie the driven GEC in the meter base. Since it's sealed, the connection is considered inaccessible.
Click to expand...
We as in your area?
Or we as in the NEC?
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

yes, in my area both poco's require at least 1 GR. Ive been told it also helps save the foundation from cracking during a lightning hit
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Originally posted by electricmanscott:
Originally posted by LarryFine:
I wish we could tie the driven GEC in the meter base. Since it's sealed, the connection is considered inaccessible.
Click to expand...
We as in your area?
Or we as in the NEC?
Click to expand...
Richmond (and Henrico Co.), Va. The whole state, I believe.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

We consider a section sealed by the POCO inaccessible also. The POCO here also will not permit customer grounding connections in their compartments.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

One item to note: If all the Grounding Electrode Conductors (GEC's) are concealed inside the building, you may need to run a #6 out to where the TV/PH enter the building, to keep the phone company happy.

Around here, they attach to the GEC where the connection is made to the ground rod supplementing the water pipe.

The house I'm finishing up tommorrow finally had the CCE installed at the pour, so I'm not installing a ground rod. The CCE was framed into the interior of the attached garage. I had to install a nail-on LV single gang to make my GEC connection to the CCE accessible after drywall.

I then ran a #6 from the service, through the wall, and exited with the LV home runs.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

thanks george, that is also what i'm looking to do . what have you been using for your GEC connection to the CCE.

[ January 23, 2006, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: twistin214 ]
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Most of the jurisdictions in my area permit the "turning-up" of rebar into an interior wall. Code compliant or not, this is the most common practice.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Most houses in my area do not have rebar in the footing, so wer are not required to use CEE. On most of the houses I wire, we install 20' of #4 in the footing and do not drive ground rods.

We've been doing this for about 6-7 years. We began the practice because if we did it, then we did not have to use a metal well casing as GEC at the time. (MA amendment at the time)
This is no longer a requirement, but since it such a good ground, we've continued the practice.

Some inspectors who I know allow GEC terminations in meter enclosure, some don't. About 6 years ago I asked Jim Fahey (executive secretary of the MA board of examiners) if it were allowed, and his response was that it is allowed unless prohibited by the poco.

Isn't there some controversy about exposing uncoated rebar that is embedded in the concrete for connection? Something about it corroding through in a short period of time?
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

Had H.G. Ufer know about the current TVSS protection available way back in 1942, he wouldn't have even bothered with his CEE experiment realizing that grounding is way over rated as a suitable protection means.
 
Re: concrete encased electrode vs grnd rods

No ground rods required unless its a time and materials job.
In ten years a new electrician will ask, "hey I ran into some old ground rods in the warehouse, what were they for?"
CEE, I like it, the industry has already made a slang term.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top