Condo unit with multiple detached garages vs. 225.30

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Sdr96

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A single structure consists of 6 condos. Service equipment will consist of a meter pack with 6 utility meters with 6 main cb's (Square D Meter-Pak or some such) and is mounted on exterior wall of building. Each meter feeds a load center in each unit. Next to the building are detached garages, three separate buildings with two garages each. (I am borrowing this idea from someone else in the forum).

111222333444555666 main bldg
111222333444555666SE service equip on this side
111222333444555666

111222 333444 555666 detached garages
111222 333444 555666

225.30 says separate buildings "under single management" shall be supplied by one feeder or branch circuit. In our case, the garages need to come off the associated tenant's meter because there is no "house" or "common" meter, so there would be at least one branch circuit from each tenant's panel to their garage, two circuits total to each garage building. Does 225.30 not apply because the buildings are not "under single management" since each condo is individually owned? Where apartments have detached garages, are they usually on a house meter? Our local plan reviews and inspectors are of the variety where if it's never been seen before it must be wrong. Any thoughts, experiences, ideas would be appreciated.
 
I wired 8 apartment buildings that had 4 apartments per building. Each apartment had a detached garage that we ran a circuit from the corresponding apartments to the respective garage. In my case there was one building behind each apartment building with 4 garages in it. Your case sounds similar to mine as we had no house panel, the tenant pays for everything.
 
How does your municipality define building? It may appear to be two garages under one roof, but in reality (according to local building codes) two garages in two buildings. The building sharing a common firewall.

We had the situation where the garages were (appearance-wise) 6 garages under one roof. The building inspector said it was 6 garages sharing common walls because each space was separated by a firewall.
 
If the garages do not have a fire wall inbetween them, they are considered one building.... hence one supply.
This would be poor designing by the engineer/architect and is not your problem. Have the building department duke it out with them.
 
Re: Condo unit with multiple detached garages vs. 225.30

Sdr96 said:
225.30 says separate buildings "under single management" shall be supplied by one feeder or branch circuit. In our case, the garages need to come off the associated tenant's meter because there is no "house" or "common" meter, so there would be at least one branch circuit from each tenant's panel to their garage, two circuits total to each garage building. Does 225.30 not apply because the buildings are not "under single management" since each condo is individually owned? Where apartments have detached garages, are they usually on a house meter? Our local plan reviews and inspectors are of the variety where if it's never been seen before it must be wrong. Any thoughts, experiences, ideas would be appreciated.
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"Does 225.30 not apply because the buildings are not "under single management" since each condo is individually owned?"

Good question !
I'll throw in my opinion
No, 225.30 doesn't apply. Individually owned makes the decision easy.

But even if these units were only rented, I'd still answer that 225.30 doesn't apply. There's single management and then there's single management, or in otherwords, there's different types of single management.

One type is spoken about in 225.35X, "In a multiple-occupancy building where electric supply and electrical maintainance are provided by the building management and where these are under continuous building management supervision, ....."

In your case the single management is each single tenant managing their own electrical consumption and having their own meter. If there was a landlord "house" service and panel, there might even be one more feeder going out to those buildings to pick up site lighting mounted to the outside face of the building.

Even if we're only talking about rentals, the main residential building could have multiple services or feeders [225.30(B)(1) & 230.2(B)(1)]. In my opinion, if a multiple occupancy residential building can have multiple services or feeders than the multiple occupancy outbuildings can have multiple feeders if the building is divided between tenants.

David
PS Don't forget that you can skip adding a bunch of ground rods if you only have circuiting described in 250.32(A)X
 
I discussed it with our plan reviewer and we came up with two options. One, add the house meter and house panel, which will then feed one load center at each garage building. Or two, treat each garage as a separate building and have a fire wall between the two. The architect already had a one hour fire wall between the two garages. NEC only says "fire wall" but locally they refer to the 2003 IBC which requires a two hour rating. Fortunately, this is all still on paper.
 
I have a duplex with a separate building on the same property. The second building contains two garages with a dwelling above them. The duplex has its service on it and they want one circuit from each unit to the garage. The service for the dwelling above the garages is on that building.
How should I deal with the problem of three sources of power to one building? :?
 
81611 said:
I have a duplex with a separate building on the same property. The second building contains two garages with a dwelling above them. The duplex has its service on it and they want one circuit from each unit to the garage. The service for the dwelling above the garages is on that building.
How should I deal with the problem of three sources of power to one building? :?
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Multiple sources of power to the same structure is not automatically a problem [see 225.30(B)(1) & 230.2(B)(1)]. The issue is determining what constitutes "multiple occupancy" and what constitutes "single management" [225.30].

In my opinion, if you have multiple meters, multiple tenants, and fire walls, then you have "multiple occupancy" and you do not have "single management". In that situation, you can have multiple services or feeders.

David
 
I agree with David's read on this.

I believe the disconnects for all sources of power should be grouped, per 225.34. I think a pair of snap switches located at the service should do the job.
 
David,
Code: 
225.30 Number of Supplies
Where more than one building or other structure is on the same property and under single management,
230.2 Number of Services
(B) Special Occupancies By special permission, additional services shall be permitted for either of the following: 
(1)	Multiple-occupancy buildings where there is no available space for service equipment accessible to all occupants
Neither code section you referenced is relative to the situation I stated.
The building is not under single management and I have one service and two branch circuits, one from each side of the duplex.
I am thinking of two switches located near the service disconnect and signage that states there are three power sources serving the structure.
I was just trying to see if the code actually covers this type of installation.
 
81611, welcome to the forum.
81611 said:
I am thinking of two switches located near the service disconnect...
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Plagiarizing gets you nowhere. :D
...and signage that states there are three power sources serving the structure.
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That would be in keeping with 225.37. This also indicates that a combination of services, feeders, branch circuits can be present at a structure, as well. 8)
 
Code: 
225.37 Identification
Exception No. 2: This identification shall not be required for branch circuits installed from a dwelling unit to a second building or structure.

George,
Like I said, I was looking for a code reference that would require what I was asking for. :(
Thanks for the welcome.
Tom
 
Honestly, I think 225.34 is all you need. If they are grouped and marked, then it should be good to go.

I guess the fact that they're energized from three different services doesn't truly constitute a safety hazard, so long as it's clear where to go when you want to kill all power to the structure.
 
81611 said:
David,
Code: 
225.30 Number of Supplies
Where more than one building or other structure is on the same property and under single management,
230.2 Number of Services
(B) Special Occupancies By special permission, additional services shall be permitted for either of the following: 
(1)	Multiple-occupancy buildings where there is no available space for service equipment accessible to all occupants
Neither code section you referenced is relative to the situation I stated.
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I know that.
I gave you references of even more questionable installations than the one that you're involved in. Even these more extreme examples allow multiple feeds under certain situations.

My point was that you shouldn't assume that mutiple feeds are a problem.
Multiple feeds from a mulitple occupancy is a common installation.

David
 
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