conductor identification

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sethas

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I got into a discussion with several of the electricians on my present job, including the foreman. They all said that the code does not allow the use of black, red, and blue on a 480v circuit.

I disagreed with them. The code in sections 200.6, and 200.7 specify the color for the grounded circuit conductor, section 250.119 covers the equipment grounding conductor, and section 310.12 covers the grounded circuit conductor, the equipment grounding conductor, and the ungrounded conductors. I can find nothing to back up what they are saying.

I know that the code specifys that the stinger circuit must be on the center phase, and marked in orange color....but that is the only specific note for an ungrounded conductor.

Also, they say you can not re-identify smaller than #6awg....again they must be confusing their codes sections, taking bits and pieces from 200.6, 200.7, and 250.119.

But I may be wrong. So what is it????
 
by the way, i didn't wire it that way. i just got in on the discussion when checking the panel before power up.... personally i like alll my conductors identified by the standard in uglys

black, red, blue, white 120/208, 120/240 brown, orange, yellow, and sometimes purple, gray 277/480
 
I agree with you. Ask them to cite a code refrence. That should keep them busy for a while.

It might be an industry practice but not an NEC code
 
NEC 210.5 when more than one nominal voltage are present in a structure you must identify the conductors of that specific system and post it at the panel boards and or service. Once you establish that marking you need to maintain it. However you can re-id conductors other than ground and neutral that are # 6 or small. The neutrals of the different systems only needs to be id differently when in same raceway or enclosure.
 
Bea said:
NEC 210.5 when more than one nominal voltage are present in a structure you must identify the conductors of that specific system and post it at the panel boards and or service. Once you establish that marking you need to maintain it. However you can re-id conductors other than ground and neutral that are # 6 or small. The neutrals of the different systems only needs to be id differently when in same raceway or enclosure.
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so......... What does this have to do with the colors specified or prohibited?
 
S'mise said:
so......... What does this have to do with the colors specified or prohibited?
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it means that you can not change the colors up. Once you have established black, red and blue as 120/208 and brown, orange and yellow for 277/480v you can not interchange the coloring. The same holds true the other way around. i.e. brown, orange and yellow for 120/208v and black, red and blue for 277/480v
 
Method of identification does not have to be use of color, it could be tagging or markings or whatever else you may think of. The use of white, gray or green - green with yellow stripe is still required for conductors serving the purpose those colors represent.
 
Understand a conversational topic!
At my 'lab' all voltages are identified Black Red Blue A B C, yes thats correct All voltages from 120V to 138KV! Apparently more concerned about phasing!

How would you feel working here?
 
Glenn Anderson said:
Understand a conversational topic!
At my 'lab' all voltages are identified Black Red Blue A B C, yes thats correct All voltages from 120V to 138KV! Apparently more concerned about phasing!

How would you feel working here?
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I would have no problem with it at all, I never trust the color of a conductor to identify the voltage.
 
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iwire said:
I would have no problem with it at all, I never trust the color of a conductor to identify the violate.
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Agreed!! If you are in this trade long enough you will eventually find some green wire being used as a hot conductor and I'm sure even stranger and more dangerous things are out there...

Pete
 
pete m. said:
If you are in this trade long enough you will eventually find some green wire being used as a hot conductor
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tom baker said:
That was allowed until the 2005 NEC....
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Never trust a color

Mixed139-1.jpg


Yeah, that is yellow, green, brown 208Y/120
 
iwire said:
I would have no problem with it at all, I never trust the color of a conductor to identify the voltage.
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Agreed

I think if we start trying to trust the colors of wires, we will open ourselves to not making sure what we are connecting to, not only shock hazard problems but over voltage equipment that could cause a fire, sure its nice for phase rotation, but after the first couple years, who knows if the POCO or someone else changed anything, it still needs to be tested to be sure every time!
 
hurk27 said:
or the wire size as it looks like AL 500's or 600's? I Like the pigtail fuse holder EMG/exit lights?
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I looked at about 8 services in the same Boston neighborhood and this was one of the better ones. LINK At least this one does not have parallel conductors of different sizes.

The fuse ... that circuit ran through a Fire alarm pull station in the lobby and back to this shunt trip breaker. The pull station was not connected to any fire alarm system but if you pulled it the power to the building would be cut off. Someone had disconnected it before I got there. That was also the same in each one I looked at.
 
iwire said:
I looked at about 8 services in the same Boston neighborhood and this was one of the better ones. LINK At least this one does not have parallel conductors of different sizes.

The fuse ... that circuit ran through a Fire alarm pull station in the lobby and back to this shunt trip breaker. The pull station was not connected to any fire alarm system but if you pulled it the power to the building would be cut off. Someone had disconnected it before I got there. That was also the same in each one I looked at.
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The bad thing is we know some inspector had required that shunt trip and allowed this to pass, or it could have been a fire marshal?

Using an expected alarm device to trip the breaker could put those at risk who might think a fire truck is coming when all they did is shut off the power, not a good idea. it could actually delay someone from calling the fire in thinking they already have.
 
You may use any color you want (other than where specified in the code) for any voltage you want.

This is another one of those "urban codes". It's been a trade practice for years, but that does not make it code.
 
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