Conduit body or pull box?

[mark32]

I'll be pulling a few #4's through 1" emt and because I'll have more than 360 degrees in this run I want to put in a "C" conduit body but when sizing a pull box it should be 8" in length which the "C" is not. I read a couple of threads here on the topic but I still cannot make heads or tails of it.

 

[ritelec]

I see it as a condulet not a box so it should be ok.

However, after one of those ceu's this weekend, I remember something being mentioned about it and gone through fast.

I will be curious to see the answer.........I will look and be back if I have something more helpful


By the way mark?? North Jersey here. You play?

 

[ritelec]

not to just give you the answer but....Nope.. .it reads #4 and larger, box or conduit body for straight pulls, 8x :weeping:

 

[tkb]

I'll be pulling a few #4's through 1" emt and because I'll have more than 360 degrees in this run I want to put in a "C" conduit body but when sizing a pull box it should be 8" in length which the "C" is not. I read a couple of threads here on the topic but I still cannot make heads or tails of it.

In a 1" Red Dot "C" condulet, 3-#4 are allowed.
See 314.28(A)(3)
Anything more and you would have a violation.
No room for a EGC.

http://tnblnx3.tnb.com/emAlbum/albums//us_resource/gm102lr_h_lelc1.pdf
See page 60

 

[infinity]

With #4 and larger conductors a conduit body is required to have the same dimensions as a pull box, 8X for straight pulls and 6X for angles. If the conductors are listing on the inside of the conduit body then you can use it as a pulling point even if it doesn't meet the 6X and 8X rules.

 

[ritelec]

Reckon they will start producing a new line of condulets ???

 

[kwired]

Reckon they will start producing a new line of condulets ???

No. Infinity addressed it:

With #4 and larger conductors a conduit body is required to have the same dimensions as a pull box, 8X for straight pulls and 6X for angles. If the conductors are listing on the inside of the conduit body then you can use it as a pulling point even if it doesn't meet the 6X and 8X rules.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If you come into the back of a box and out of the back of a box so that you are pulling straight out and straight in you don't need to do the 6x or 8x.

Now that I said that, my brain reminded me that a "C" conduit body is a straigth pull. Look at 314.28(A)(3)

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If you come into the back of a box and out of the back of a box so that you are pulling straight out and straight in you don't need to do the 6x or 8x.

Now that I said that, my brain reminded me that a "C" conduit body is a straigth pull. Look at 314.28(A)(3)

You still have a "6x" to work with when making a "U" pull. The distance between the two raceways must be 6 times the trade size of the raceways. 314.28(A)(2)

 

[ksmith846]

Every conduit body I have looked in has the quantity and size of the wires allowed to be pulled through it and it has never been very useful for me to use as they always seem to state someting like (3) #3/0's and I am pulling 4 or need an EGC.

We always use a pull box for this application. The C condulets have come in handy for 3/4" and 1" runs that exceed the maximun pull distance. This way we can pull straight through it and not waste time with splice or installing a 4 square box. The 4 square box has to be supported while the condulet does not.

 

[cowboyjwc]

You still have a "6x" to work with when making a "U" pull. The distance between the two raceways must be 6 times the trade size of the raceways. 314.28(A)(2)

Look at the exception.

 

[Cow]

Can you use a small 4x4x24 gutter instead?

Most of the time I put C's in just to meet the degree requirement, but usually pull straight through them anyways. If I actually need a pull point, I'll use an oversize C or box depending on what I'm doing. I personally hate trying to tuck big wire into a C. Trying to curl your #4's back into a 1" C would suck.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here are some good graphics from MH. If the C condulet has #4 listed then I would not worry about box rule.

 

[iwire]

Can you use a small 4x4x24 gutter instead?

That would be my first choice, I like wireways for this and in place of LBs as well in some cases.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Look at the exception.

There is no exception to the part of the rule that requires 6x spacing between the two conduits. The exception only applies to the distance from the conduit entry to the wall opposite the conduit entry.

 

[tkb]

Every conduit body I have looked in has the quantity and size of the wires allowed to be pulled through it and it has never been very useful for me to use as they always seem to state someting like (3) #3/0's and I am pulling 4 or need an EGC.

We always use a pull box for this application. The C condulets have come in handy for 3/4" and 1" runs that exceed the maximun pull distance. This way we can pull straight through it and not waste time with splice or installing a 4 square box. The 4 square box has to be supported while the condulet does not.

Maximun pull distance? No such thing.

 

[iwire]

I'll be pulling a few #4's through 1" emt

When I have to run 4 AWGs I am usually thinking 1.25" raceway.

I think you max out at four 4 AWGs in 1" EMT

 

[kwired]

You still have a "6x" to work with when making a "U" pull. The distance between the two raceways must be 6 times the trade size of the raceways. 314.28(A)(2)

Never seen a "C" body that works for "U" pulls

Every conduit body I have looked in has the quantity and size of the wires allowed to be pulled through it and it has never been very useful for me to use as they always seem to state someting like (3) #3/0's and I am pulling 4 or need an EGC.

We always use a pull box for this application. The C condulets have come in handy for 3/4" and 1" runs that exceed the maximun pull distance. This way we can pull straight through it and not waste time with splice or installing a 4 square box. The 4 square box has to be supported while the condulet does not.

Good point on marking of (3) #3/0 but you are pulling something else, I don't know the answer to that one though.
there is no maximum pull distance - there is maximum amount of bends.

When I have to run 4 AWGs I am usually thinking 1.25" raceway.

I think you max out at four 4 AWGs in 1" EMT

What if you are only pulling two 4 AWG's?

 

[mark32]

Thanks all for the replies.

In response to some comments:

ritelec, I believe you have asked if I play guitar, unfortunately I do not but wish I could, I have no musical talents. I'd like to say maybe someday I could learn but...that could take a very long time and I think I'd rather be out fishing instead

TKB, thanks for the link, yeah 3 #4's in 1" but a egc is not allowed? Blahh

With #4 and larger conductors a conduit body is required to have the same dimensions as a pull box, 8X for straight pulls and 6X for angles. If the conductors are listing on the inside of the conduit body then you can use it as a pulling point even if it doesn't meet the 6X and 8X rules.

Rob, that's it! That's the wording I was looking for. Before your post I must have read close to 50 posts on the topic and no one put it as clear as this, you should be an instructor. Sooo, looks like I'll have to upsize to a 1 1/4" C and reduce it to 1" using reducers or get one of those mogul conduit bodies. (Read about them but never seen one).

To clarify, I will be pulling three 4's, a #8, and 5 #18's (Extending a generator to transfer panel feed). I'm thinking I'd have roughly 400 degrees of bends here, I believe I could pull it straight through the C so I wouldn't have to loop it back in and out in order to make the pull. Sound good?

 

[infinity]

Rob, that's it! That's the wording I was looking for. Before your post I must have read close to 50 posts on the topic and no one put it as clear as this, you should be an instructor. Sooo, looks like I'll have to upsize to a 1 1/4" C and reduce it to 1" using reducers or get one of those mogul conduit bodies. (Read about them but never seen one).

As you've mentioned using a larger conduit body is typically how this is done. I'm not sure how this applies when the conduit body is larger than the trade size of the raceway. :?

314.23(E) Raceway Supported Enclosure, Without Devices, Luminaires, or Lampholders. An enclosure that does not contain a device(s) other than splicing devices or support a luminaire(s), lampholder, or other equipment and is supported by entering raceways shall not exceed 1650 cm3 (100 in.3) in size. It shall have threaded entries or have hubs identified for the purpose. It shall be supported by two or more conduits threaded wrenchtight into the enclosure or hubs. Each conduit shall be secured within 900 mm (3 ft) of the enclosure, or within 450 mm (18 in.) of the enclosure if all conduit entries are on the same side.
Exception: Rigid metal, intermediate metal, or rigid nonmetallic conduit or electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted to support a conduit body of any size, including a conduit body constructed with only one conduit entry, provided the trade size of the conduit body is not larger than the largest trade size of the conduit or electrical metallic tubing.