Conduit Corrosion

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Bjenks

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East Coast of FL
Looking for field experience on this issue... Does this conduit look like GRMC or EMT to you? Does it look like excessive corrosion for being installed in concrete close to the beach for 25 years? I was thinking it was Alum EMT, but I am good at specing, not very good as seeing what is existing. It looks to be consistant at the joints and wondering if it is steel and they self threaded it and didn't coat it loosing the protection?


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I think I am about to learn somether here :D

Almost all engineering specs for EMT say the following and never knew what the Pot Metal issues was since it usually consist of Zinc, once heard it had to do with cracking of the joint after time. Is this method a NEC recognized method? Beside cracking of the joint is there another corrosive issue that I might not be aware of? Below is from our standard spec:

Electrical metallic tubing fittings:
a. Fittings and conduit bodies shall meet the requirements of UL 514B, ANSI C80.3, and NEMA FB1.
b. Only steel or malleable iron materials are acceptable.
c. Setscrew couplings and connectors: Use setscrews of case-hardened steel with hex head and cup point, to firmly seat in wall of conduit for positive grounding.
d. Indent-type connectors or couplings are prohibited.
e. Die-cast or pressure-cast zinc-alloy fittings or fittings made of "pot metal" are prohibited
 
I think I see two types of fittings in the picture. Both types are used with EMT, so you probably have EMT there.

Is EMT allowed in a slab? Well, the general answer is 'yes,' since the article on EMT says so, and there are plenty of EMT fittings considered OK for use in concrete. However, we must still honor Article 110, which tells us the method chosen must be suitable for the application, that the method must be suitable for whatever mechanical or corrosive factors there are in the specific environment. Since concrete is porous, it is possible for there to be a slab that is exposed to solutions that make EMT unacceptable as a method.

An example of an 'unsuitable' concrete might be where the mix contains ocean beach sand. Such a concrete would have enough salt in it to seriously attack the rebar, let alone any EMT. While such concrete is no longer allowed for structural uses, I can see it being used in a simple slab, drive, or walkway.

Now, as for the fittings:

I see a die-cast zinc, or 'pot metal' type fitting. Such fittings are often listed for use in concrete.

I also see some 'crimp on' type fittings. Those fittings are not listed as 'concrete tight,' even though they are made of steel. The 'crimp' is a simple one-point indentation in the fitting.

As for your engineering spec: Specs often have a bias in favor of 'steel' fittings. This spec is based on simple snobbery, a belief that steel fittings are obviously, somehow, better than zinc fittings. My experiences do not support this bias.

In fact, steel fittings seem to be more dificult to properly tighten; it's harder to grip the more rounded 'nuts' with your Channellocks. In most environments, steel is more likely to corrode than zinc.

Sure, the cast fittings can be cracked, torn, and damaged more easily than steel, and zinc melts at a much lower temperature. However, if your pipe is moving that much you have some serious support issues, and wire insulation is destroyed long before zinc will melt.

Let's get back to this specific installation: I would say that IF the pipe is corroded to the point where there are holes in it, you should consider a different method. Perhaps PVC is a better choice. I would not worry about a little surface rust.
 
Oxidation on aluminum is grayish white so rule out aluminum,the surface oxidation is heavy(course) which would lead me to think RMC but haven't seen the Dime Store fittings used in this manner before,so I guess steel EMT Electrogal or Zinc plated.

That type corrosion in a saltwater atmosphere for 25 years would not be uncommon.There is probably chemical contamination as well.

dick
 
Oxidation on aluminum is grayish white so rule out aluminum,the surface oxidation is heavy(coarse) which would lead me to think RMC but haven't seen the Dime Store fittings used in this manner before,so I guess steel EMT Electrogal or Zinc plated.

That type corrosion in a saltwater atmosphere for 25 years would not be uncommon.

dick
 
The corrosion was so bad that it caused the walkway to rupture in many places. Here you can see a picture of the conduit completely corroded. If this is Steel EMT (which I thought is galvanized on the outside with organic material protection on the inside) with Zinc fitting, I am still not sure why all these conduits would corrode so bad? Good point on it not being Aluminum since it isn't white, but iron-red. I looked up the crimp type fitting and my understanding is it is still a UL approved method but not used anymore. It also said it is a concrete tight method, but not rain tight. My understanding that concrete tight only has to do with the aggregate getting in and hardening and thus making the conduit space smaller and teeth that may penetrate the cable over time, nothing to do with corrosion.


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"Walkway rupture" introduces a whole new factor.

You don't need 'bad' corrosion to have this happen; you just need the iron to be too close to the surface.

The walkway ruptured because rust takes up more space than iron. So, as the iron corrodes, it expands. The desire to expand is stronger than the compressive strength of the concrete, so the concrete crumbles.

What's important is that this will happen with ANY steel near the surface - be it EMT, RMC, rebar, or mesh.

Concrete is alkaline, so using aluminum is not a good idea. Aluminum doesn't resist alkali very well at all!

Looks like you have some PVC in your future.
 
"Walkway rupture" introduces a whole new factor.

You don't need 'bad' corrosion to have this happen; you just need the iron to be too close to the surface.

The walkway ruptured because rust takes up more space than iron. So, as the iron corrodes, it expands. The desire to expand is stronger than the compressive strength of the concrete, so the concrete crumbles.

What's important is that this will happen with ANY steel near the surface - be it EMT, RMC, rebar, or mesh.

Concrete is alkaline, so using aluminum is not a good idea. Aluminum doesn't resist alkali very well at all!

Looks like you have some PVC in your future.

I agree that does happen.

But I'm not sure that's what happened here.

If there is salt in the mix, I wonder if the salt has just ate away the concrete leaving the conduits exposed.
 
Definately not aluminum. Looks like EMT. My business use to be at the shore and saw a lot of damage like this either right by the beach or right by the bay.
 
Saw this allot in the Mid-Atlantic area (DC/MD/VA). Usually in underground parking garages. Often with live conductors exposed through the holes on the conduit. I usually found the closest j-box (in the slab), set a new box over it, and surface ran new conduit and conductors (still EMT, but not encased in the slab) to the connection point. Always a fun job :thumbsdown:
 
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