conduit fitting installation

[augie47]

What is the best guide for the correct method of conduit fitttings ?
For example, I was asked today if it was proper to terminate a galv steel nipple using a locknut outside an enclosure and a bonding bushing (only) inside the enclosure or were two locknuts required. I looked in the UL White book and, thought such questions may be answered there, I didnt find it.

Proper transitions for EMT to sealtite, etc have been discussed here, but I don't recall what guide we use to determine "acceptable" installation methods.

any guidance ?

 

[Smart $]

any guidance ?

http://www.nema.org/stds/fb1.cfm

 

[mdshunk]

The NEMA guidelines are "okay", but if you ask me, the NECA installation guidelines are far more complete, since many of them have turned into ANSI standards.

 

[220/221]

I don't know about official guidelines but unless there is a special circumstance, two locknuts is the obvious choice. It gives you more "slack" to work with.

 

[mdshunk]

I don't know about official guidelines but unless there is a special circumstance, two locknuts is the obvious choice. It gives you more "slack" to work with.

You got that. No need to measure a nipple to the .001". When I could get away with a bushing on the inside and a locknut on the outside, I tend to have a double locknut plus a bushing anyhow, just to make it easy on myself.

 

[augie47]

View attachment 1934

I will order theNECA guide, Thanks.
The above photo was the specific question.
Disregarding preferences, would this installation be to Code ?

(sorry about size, still learning)

 

[iwire]

View attachment 1934

I will order theNECA guide, Thanks.
The above photo was the specific question.
Disregarding preferences, would this installation be to Code ?

(sorry about size, still learning)

Yes that is legal in my opinion.

Check out the last paragraph of 300.4(F).

 

[cschmid]

I dont see any thing wrong with it..

 

[Smart $]

...NECA installation guidelines are far more complete...

Perhaps true, but are they recognized by NEC? I think not.

On the otherhand, the NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) standards publications represent in part manufacturer's instructions and recognized by the NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Perhaps true, but are they recognized by NEC? I think not.
On the otherhand, the NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association) standards publications represent in part manufacturer's instructions and recognized by the NEC.

There is no way that the NEMA standards publications are listing and labeling instructions. They are not enforcable by citing 110.3(B).

 

[Smart $]

There is no way that the NEMA standards publications are listing and labeling instructions.

I did not say they were.

Is there such a thing as "listing instructions" that you infer?

They are not enforcable by citing 110.3(B).

That is quite true, as the publications are not included in the listing. However, they may be in part, included in the labeling simply by the name of the part.

Question: If I get "print on paper" instructions included with an item to be installed?which means the instructions are not on the label?are the instructions binding by the technical wording of 110.3(B)?

 

[iwire]

Question: If I get "print on paper" instructions included with an item to be installed?which means the instructions are not on the label?are the instructions binding by the technical wording of 110.3(B)?

\


IMO only if those instructions are in fact part of the listing per the wording of 110.3(B).

 

[Smart $]

IMO only if those instructions are in fact part of the listing per the wording of 110.3(B).

I've yet to see a listing which states something to the effect "including instructions". Have you?

 

[iwire]

I've yet to see a listing which states something to the effect "including instructions". Have you?

Nope.

But there are items in the white book that require certain instructions or information to be included on the product or shipped with the product.

Classified breakers for instance.

 

[Smart $]

Nope.

But there are items in the white book that require certain instructions or information to be included on the product or shipped with the product.

Classified breakers for instance.

OK...

Where are the instructions for conduit and associated fittings? I've never seen any instructions included with conduit. Some fittings come with printed instructions (not on label) included in each box... some don't. Where are the instructions for the ones that don't? And for the ones that do, are the instructions part of the listing? I haven't seen such a listing. As far as I can determine, only the part is listed (by part number)... that is, neither the box nor the instructions are part of the listing.

 

[iwire]

OK...

Where are the instructions for conduit and associated fittings? I've never seen any instructions included with conduit. Some fittings come with printed instructions (not on label) included in each box... some don't. Where are the instructions for the ones that don't? And for the ones that do, are the instructions part of the listing? I haven't seen such a listing. As far as I can determine, only the part is listed (by part number)... that is, neither the box nor the instructions are part of the listing.

I have asked much the same questions and have not learned anything.

As far as I know rigid threaded conduit couplings have no instructions.

 

[Smart $]

As far as I know rigid threaded conduit couplings have no instructions.

:grin: :grin: :grin:

Taking the NEC out of the picture for the time being, what would be the most definitive source of information on the proper installation of raceways, including usage of associated parts, when instructions are not included?

IMO, the manufacturer or an association thereof would be.

 

[iwire]

:grin: :grin: :grin:

Taking the NEC out of the picture for the time being, what would be the most definitive source of information on the proper installation of raceways, including usage of associated parts, when instructions are not included?

IMO, the manufacturer or an association thereof would be.

Well maybe, of course the primary purpose of NEMA is sales, not accurate information.

Not saying they would lie, just that it would benefit them to say a conduit coupling was just for coupling conduits and then they can sell more specialized change overs for higher margins...........but I'm not cynical. :grin:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

It is my opinion that the only 110.3(B) instructions are those that are found in the white book...everything else is a manufacturer's recommendation.

 

[iwire]

It is my opinion that the only 110.3(B) instructions are those that are found in the white book...everything else is a manufacturer's recommendation.

How about a paper list sent with the breaker as required by the white book?


From the 2007 White Book
CIRCUIT BREAKERS, MOLDED-CASE,
CLASSIFIED FOR USE IN SPECIFIED
EQUIPMENT (DIXF)

PRODUCT MARKINGS
A circuit breaker that is Classified only is marked on the side with the
statement:
??Classified for use only in specified panelboards where the available
short-circuit current is 10 kA, 120/240 volts ac or less. Do not use in equipment
connected to circuits having an available system short-circuit current
in excess of 10 kA, 120/240 volts ac. For catalog numbers (or equivalent) of
specified panelboards, refer to Publication No.______ provided with this circuit
breaker. If additional information is necessary, contact [Classified circuit
breaker manufacturer?s name].??

A circuit breaker that is both Classified and Listed is marked on the side
with the statement:
??This circuit breaker is Listed for use in circuit breaker enclosures and
panelboards intended and marked for its use. This circuit breaker is Classified
for use, where the available short-circuit current is 10 kA, 120/240 V ac
or less, in the compatible panelboards shown in Publication No. ______ provided
with this circuit breaker. When used as a Classified circuit breaker, do
not use in equipment connected to circuits having an available system
short-circuit current in excess of 10 kA, 120/240 V ac. If additional information
is necessary, contact [Classified circuit breaker manufacturer?s name].??

The referenced publication is a compatibility list which tabulates the company
name, catalog number, number of poles and electrical ratings of the
Classified circuit breaker, in addition to the company name and catalog
number of the applicable UL Listed panelboards, and corresponding UL
Listed circuit breakers in place of which the Classified circuit breaker has
been investigated. The compatibility list also details the maximum permissible
voltage and maximum available short circuit current of the supply system
to the panelboard. The Classified circuit breaker is not suitable for the
specified application if the system supply characteristics exceed the maximum
values indicated in the compatibility list. One copy of the compatibility
list is provided with each circuit breaker.
Circuit breakers which are both Classified and Listed have markings as
above, with the addition of the Listing Mark, located on the side of the circuit
breaker.

To me the above just drives home my feeling that unless the white book references specific paper work most instructions are manufacturer's recommendations.