Conduit Routing Predicament

[George Stolz]

I have a predicament. I have a meterpack on order to replace an old FPE meterpack that has bitten the dust. I went to the supply house to look at the catalog myself, to get an idea of what I was going to be installing, and saw an issue.

The existing service is laid out as follows:

View attachment 3115

There is a window to the left, and there is a wall jutting out to the right. I've drawn it essentially as I remember it.

The red and blue things going into the bottom of the service are the service lateral (in red) and the feeders to the units (in blue).

The new service is going to receive the utility on the left, and the feeders are going to leave on the right. So, I'll need a gutter to splice the feeder conductors in, which I figure will take up the entire bottom of the new can.

Would you route the service conductors into another gutter on the right of the new can, and then pipe around the top of the service to enter the right with an LB? I think this would look pretty trashy, but I'm not seeing a second option. Thoughts?

 

[K8MHZ]

Based on what I understand your situation is, if it were me I would go with the duct below the pack to make the splices in.

 

[K8MHZ]

One more thing.

Is the new 4 pack a modular? Some mods can be set up for being fed on either side. I believe the ones I saw were around 1600 dollars a pop, though.

 

[George Stolz]

No. The price differential between modular and one-piece meterpacks is remarkable.

The cost for a 4-stack meterpack (no main) is over $700.
The cost for a 7-stack meterpack (meter modules, main disconnect) is over $4,400.

My main issue is 230.7 - I can't splice the service conductors in the same gutter, IMO.

 

[cadpoint]

Who's meter pack are you going to use?

I thought that every meter pack had left or right optional placement to attach to the phase bars as desired ? Did my Boss over Buy AGAIN!
The other side is used covered up!

I know GE does, I also know that if a custmor where to ever require more power the meter base
between ever 125 AMP to 150 AMP is a difference of 6-8" inch in respects to the "Y" of the meter panel!
They will be out of luck if the trough is close, like mine is.

We have a local Code here where the face of a meter/panel/disconnect can not be any farther than 6" back
from the face of a gutter if gutter is below anything.

PVC everything on your side you can!
They allow Sch 80 exposed in the great wild west show ?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

No. The price differential between modular and one-piece meterpacks is remarkable.

The cost for a 4-stack meterpack (no main) is over $700.
The cost for a 7-stack meterpack (meter modules, main disconnect) is over $4,400.

My main issue is 230.7 - I can't splice the service conductors in the same gutter, IMO.

We are having just such a discussion in another thread.
You are correct in that service conductors and other conductors are not permitted in the same enclosure.

Have you read the other thread?

 

[George Stolz]

Who's meter pack are you going to use?

Siemens SP4411.
http://automation.usa.siemens.com/resident/images/Uni-PakMeterCenterPhotos/SP4411_on.jpg

I thought that every meter pack had left or right optional placement to attach to the phase bars as desired ?

I spent some time researching in that catalog, but did not see a "right or left" option.

They allow Sch 80 exposed in the great wild west show ?

They do around here.

We are having just such a discussion in another thread.
You are correct in that service conductors and other conductors are not permitted in the same enclosure.

Have you read the other thread?

No, I'm not seeing it. Do you have a link?

 

[ericsherman37]

I assume it's not possible to just flip the new thing over, right?

 

[George Stolz]

I assume it's not possible to just flip the new thing over, right?

I think that would invalidate the NEMA-3R rating.

 

[nakulak]

Who's meter pack are you going to use?

We have a local Code here where the face of a meter/panel/disconnect can not be any farther than 6" back
from the face of a gutter if gutter is below anything.

?

I think that's covered in 110.26 A 3

 

[iwire]

Is it to late to cancel the one that is on the way and find one that is the other way?

In the past I have worked with GE modular meter stacks and you can put the main or terminal box on either side or even in between the meters.

 

[George Stolz]

Is it to late to cancel the one that is on the way and find one that is the other way?

Unfortunately, yes, it is.

In the past I have worked with GE modular meter stacks and you can put the main or terminal box on either side or even in between the meters.

I can only think of one supplier around here who sells GE - and I really don't want to darken their door.

 

[augie47]

do you have enough room to lengthen and squeeze your service conduit between the wall and your new equipement and then wireway (or conduit) across the top to the left side ?

 

[George Stolz]

do you have enough room to lengthen and squeeze your service conduit between the wall and your new equipement and then wireway (or conduit) across the top to the left side ?

There will be more room on the sides of the service, with the new service. The old service is wider than the new one will be. The new service (shown above) will be less than 30" wide, whereas the old one is greater than 36" wide, if memory serves.

I can extend the conduits, but the existing conductors are in good shape and would be too short to extend the conduit too much, hence all the gutters I'm mulling over.

 

[cadpoint]

... I can only think of one supplier around here who sells GE - and I really don't want to darken their door.

That's exactly who you need to be-friend !

Thanks Nakulak, I knew it was Code, I just couldn't remember where is was! , I wanted to just throw it out,
due to George's new found Hats he's wearing!

Those are "West Coast Can's", how Vogue! Maybe the east coast can are different ? j/k...

George so what's you opinions? You going to intersect the Line side and make a splice, in a Box in the Ground ?
What's the POCO read on that ? Seems that you'll almost have to break up both the line and load side, or at least the line!

I don't know, a ground box would cut down on the artist work you might have to do, just my opinion, and I'm just talking out loud~ ! Good Luck!

 

[George Stolz]

That's exactly who you need to be-friend !

I've dealt with them in the past, and they were pretty nitwittish then. From what I hear they've only gotten worse. Perhaps, if the pricing is right, I could deal with them again.

One aspect of this installation I didn't mention is that the overall project is going to be huge. This is one of a dozen buildings that are going to get the same treatment, as well as close to 150 panel changes.

It is a fairly low-end apartment complex. Price is a large factor in this.

And as much as it may pain the purists to hear it, even if I wound up with a cobbled-up service pipe circling the service equipment, it would be better looking than at least 50% of the work visible at the site.

I'd like to be proud of it when I'm done, but I'm okay with being just okay with it, considering the particulars.

I don't know, a ground box would cut down on the artist work you might have to do, just my opinion, and I'm just talking out loud

Hmm ... food for thought. I'll have to think about that some more, you might be onto something there. The only catch is that the existing conductors are not rated for direct burial, so I'd need an accessible junction box, and I'm having a hard time envisioning something like that for a conduit I hope is 24" or more deep.

 

[augie47]

Oh, You didn't mention hack work was permissible:smile:
Lower the entire unit so the service cables will reach and extend the service conduit across the feeder conduits it LFMC.

 

[jrannis]

Unfortunately, yes, it is.

I can only think of one supplier around here who sells GE - and I really don't want to darken their door.

It would be worth any re-stocking fee they would charge.
I saw a setup recently where they spaced the metercenter far enough off of the wall to run the service entrance conduit behind it and into a gutter above the meter center, then nippled into the top of the meter center.

 

[Mvillines]

You stated that you need additional gutter space at the bottom of the meter-pack for splicing the feeders. So installing an auxiliary gutter as per article 366 should be okay because there is no requirement to prevent service and non-service conductors from being together in the same cabinet gutter or auxiliary gutter. Auxiliary gutters are considered an extension of the existing gutter and as with all service panels or cabinets, service conductors and non-service conductors can co-exist without separation.

Read the definition of raceways in article 100 then read the definition of Auxiliary Gutters. You will find Auxiliary Gutters are defined in Article 366 because the term is not used in other articles of the NEC.

I don’t think anyone will agree with me, but I’ll be willing to bet that all of you, which have installed service equipment, have placed the service conductors and non-service conductors within the same gutter. I’ll also add that all the inspectors out there have passed this same installation.

I could be wrong but I am willing to learn.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

I have a predicament. I have a meterpack on order to replace an old FPE meterpack that has bitten the dust. I went to the supply house to look at the catalog myself, to get an idea of what I was going to be installing, and saw an issue.

The existing service is laid out as follows:

View attachment 3115

There is a window to the left, and there is a wall jutting out to the right. I've drawn it essentially as I remember it.

The red and blue things going into the bottom of the service are the service lateral (in red) and the feeders to the units (in blue).

The new service is going to receive the utility on the left, and the feeders are going to leave on the right. So, I'll need a gutter to splice the feeder conductors in, which I figure will take up the entire bottom of the new can.

Would you route the service conductors into another gutter on the right of the new can, and then pipe around the top of the service to enter the right with an LB? I think this would look pretty trashy, but I'm not seeing a second option. Thoughts?

can the terminal box feed either side of the meter stack so that the Service conductors and feeders could remain the same. seems like the termial box should be adable to connect to eith side of the meter stack?
If the gear has not shipped you could talk to you sales rep or the gear quotations guy and see if you could change the meter stack configuration. might cost more for the meter stack but lower your labor. whay can you not keep the same arrangement with the new stack?