Conduit workmanship interpretation

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Vague and unquantifiable requirements can't be enforced. I don't like how it looks but it is serviceable.
I disagree with this statement.

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment
shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.

Is an enforceable code and an AHJ could use that code to shoot this down, and I don't believe you would have recourse.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
I disagree with this statement.

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment
shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.

Is an enforceable code and an AHJ could use that code to shoot this down, and I don't believe you would have recourse.
Just how much ripple does neat allow for?
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
"I feel" is not a quantifiable standard
I agree, but as with so many things in our trade, someone WILL draw the line. As QC manager I have been in the position to draw the line with veto power by my upper management. I feel is an enforceable standard in that case.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Just how much ripple does neat allow for?
Are you of the opinion that, since that question can't be definitively answered, no amount of ripple too much, or are you just being argumentative? ( I don't mean this in an aggressive way, just as a curiosity.)
 

synchro

Senior Member
Location
Chicago, IL
Occupation
EE
To me, It appears that the radius of the bends where the dumpling appears is quite short, and the conduit becomes straight a small distance away from the dimples. Rotating the picture 90 degrees CCW seems to make that more clear. To be sure that such a short bend radius exists, a view further sideways from the conduits would be needed.
 

jtinge

Senior Member
Location
Hampton, VA
Occupation
Sr. Elec. Engr
I disagree with this statement.

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment
shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.

Is an enforceable code and an AHJ could use that code to shoot this down, and I don't believe you would have recourse.
Unless "neat" and "workmanlike" are explicitly defined in measurable terms then compliance will be left to someone's opinion. And the number of differing opinions will vary as the number of people making them. My "neat" and "workmanlike" may be more strict or lenient than someone else without some measurable reference. Just one man's opinion.
 

rambojoe

Senior Member
Location
phoenix az
Occupation
Wireman
All of the things you are saying are valid, but that pic is definitely not hand bent conduit. Again, squeeze adjustment, but also as you pointed out, seam orientation, even in a sidewinder bender can affect that. I don't think I would allow that in my company and I have acted as QC manager in and official position in my company. That is too much ripple for too small of a bend.
My eyes and the sprinkler pipe tricked me. I thought it was 1"! Oops... so with all that said, ive never had problems w/2" and never had seams split...
The first thing to do (i guess) would be to talk with the installer and inspect the bender. Its really really hard to screw up a auto bender... which now makes me think its either using rigid shoes or-
Its a h.frght. bender. Even the °90's dimpled...i also forget who and why is tagging the work... q.c.? The big boss?
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Unless "neat" and "workmanlike" are explicitly defined in measurable terms then compliance will be left to someone's opinion. And the number of differing opinions will vary as the number of people making them. My "neat" and "workmanlike" may be more strict or lenient than someone else without some measurable reference. Just one man's opinion.
Everything you said is true. None of it changes anything. I quoted a code requirement. I think the code is pretty clear on the meaning of its rules and who and how they are enforced. "Shall" in the requirement means must. Since it is open to interpretation, the AHJ has the final authority, so his opinion is no longer "just one man's opinion." The bottom ling for me is, the owner of my company would not allow that to remain with his name attached to it. He has a fit if the couplings don't line up and has made workers tear out an electric room because the tops of the panels don't line up. It is his money, but I am happy and proud to work for a man with those principles.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Are you of the opinion that, since that question can't be definitively answered, no amount of ripple too much, or are you just being argumentative? ( I don't mean this in an aggressive way, just as a curiosity.)
If the amount of allowed ripple is undefined, how do you determine it is too much? I don't like how it looks but I would not make them remove it and redo. It is just not that bad imo.
 
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