Conflict between customer and insurance

[Whale Rage Forever]

I want to hear everyone else's opinion on this situation.

I had a customer several months ago that I did an aluminum remediation for. Their HOA made them do it and was going to make them use a contractor of the HOA's choosing. Customer refused and got their own contractor-me. I told her to confirm that her HOA was going to allow that and

I did the job, it got inspected and approved, and that was that.

Now, that same customer calls me back today. Says that their HOA's insurance isn't accepting the remediation because I used CO/ALR devices in combination with alumiconns and the HOA is threatening legal action *against the customer, not me*. They say the entire complex has to be signed off by their "preferred" contractor, despite the fact that they didn't actually even enter her residence or do any work.

.

None-the-less, here we are and the fact is that I never received any documentation on how anyone expected this job to be performed before or during the job. Only now is this an issue.

I don't want to leave the customer in the dust, but I'm also not going to supply any paperwork saying I did something that I didn't actually do, and I'm not going back out to redo the whole job for free. I told her to get ready to sue her HOA, but I also want to make sure my ducks are in a row here.

I will mention that she also has an old Zinsco main panel, which is another reason why it's stupid that they complain about CO/ALR devices of all things. One idea that I had for her was to see if replacing the panel and using combo GFCI/AFCI breakers for everything would be a workaround for her if they want to make her redo the remediation.

What would you do in this situation?

 

[mtnelect]

I have been there before, don't do it ! I took the general contractor to court for non-payment. It took me five years and five different attorney firms. To only settle in the hallway outside the court room, on the day of the trial for attorney fees. There wasn't a day that went by without that on my mind. That's the day I changed my business plan to deal with the customer directly.

Homeowner's Associations are very political and have deep pockets and insurance companies have in-house attorneys. Get ready for a wild ride that you will never forget.

 

[petersonra]

My opinion is that you made a contract with someone to do some work. As long as you performed that work, you should be paid by the person you made the contract with.

Anything beyond that is not your concern.

 

[Whale Rage Forever]

I have been there before, don't do it ! I took the general contractor to court for non-payment. It took me five years and five different attorney firms. To only settle in the hallway outside the court room, on the day of the trial for attorney fees. There wasn't a day that went by without that on my mind. That's the day I changed my business plan to deal with the customer directly.

Homeowner's Associations are very political and have deep pockets and insurance companies have in-house attorneys. Get ready for a wild ride that you will never forget.

You should be paid by the person you made the contract with.

Anything beyond that is not your concern.

To clarify, I have already been paid for my original work. I was paid when I was done with this job several months ago.

 

[petersonra]

To clarify, I have already been paid for my original work. I was paid when I was done with this job several months ago.

there is no point in ou getting involved in it any further. it is between your customer and the HOA.

 

[ramsy]

HOA made them do it and was going to make them use a contractor of the HOA's choosing. Customer refused and got their own contractor-me. ..They say the entire complex has to be signed off by their "preferred" contractor

HOA's often force contractor services. Home owners typically find HOA board member related to contractor, as cause for corruption suit.

HOA's insurance isn't accepting the remediation because I used CO/ALR devices in combination with Alumiconns

Insurance policy initially accepted aluminum wire, and your repair passed inspection, so rival contractor would need to discredit AHJ, and your work. Someone should fact check the fake news with insurance company.

You could offer an extended warranty against any authority opposed to CO/ALR connectors or Alumiconns:

Inspecting Aluminum Wiring

This article describes the problems associated with aluminum wiring, how to identify it, and suggestions that inspectors can offer their clients.

www.nachi.org

• CO/ALR connections. According to the CPSC, these devices cannot be used for all parts of the wiring system, such as ceiling-mounted light fixtures or permanently wired appliances and, as such, CO/ALR connections cannot constitute a complete repair. Also, according to AWR, these connections often loosen over time.
• alumiconn. Although AWR believes this method may be an effective temporary fix, they are wary that it has little history, and that they are larger than copper crimps and are often incorrectly applied.

 

[Flicker Index]

Some HOA environment is basically home ownership under consent of amateur Karens.

 

[ramsy]

not going to supply any paperwork saying I did something that I didn't actually do, and I'm not going back out to redo the whole job for free.

If confident in your work then provide a "Certificate of Additionally Insured" from your GL insurance policy.

 

[mtnelect]

Some HOA environment is basically home ownership under consent of amateur Karens.

I agree. HOA are elected as a quasi-political organization. The majority rules, there is case law on how powerful they are.

My advice is stay away !

 

[mtnelect]

If confident in your work then provide a "Certificate of Additionally Insured" from your GL insurance policy.

I had a HVAC maintenance contract customer that purchased a condo on the ocean in Oxnard California and was having issues with a forced air furnace. I had to get approval from the HOA. I had million-dollar general insurance policy. They wanted a 2 million dollar with "Certificate of Additionally Insured". It almost doubles my premium.

If you decide to deal with a Homeowners Association (HOA) it is very convoluted and exposes you to a higher-level vulnerability.

 

[Whale Rage Forever]

If confident in your work then provide a "Certificate of Additionally Insured" from your GL insurance policy.

I am slightly confused. I understand that this is a big deal for commercial jobs, but have never had to use this.

I also was of the understanding that a certificate of additionally insured was only applicable for the duration of an ongoing job. Otherwise, the point of being insured is that people can make claims against you regardless if something goes wrong, no?

 

[mtnelect]

I am slightly confused. I understand that this is a big deal for commercial jobs, but have never had to use this.

I also was of the understanding that a certificate of additionally insured was only applicable for the duration of an ongoing job. Otherwise, the point of being insured is that people can make claims against you regardless if something goes wrong, no?

For that particular job location, it puts them in a priority position of possible claimants. Whatever your coverage is, it puts them in first position.

 

[petersonra]

For that particular job location, it puts them in a priority position of possible claimants. Whatever your coverage is, it puts them in first position.

It is a common practice for projects of any scale. Hardly worth it for a piddly job like this.

 

[mtnelect]

It is a common practice for projects of any scale. Hardly worth it for a piddly job like this.

I agree with your assessment. Do not work with HOA.

 

[ramsy]

Do not work with HOA.

HOA's shine a light in dark places,

Cash-only hacks, home-center DIY's, and dirt-bag cockroaches scurry away.

Qualified vermin hiss, bark, or spit paperwork.

 

[zbang]

...so do reputable contractors that don't want to deal with HOA's internal politics and nonsensical or code-adverse rules...

("This is the only HOA approved front door light fixture." "That's nice, it's not UL listed so I can't install it." sort of thing)

 

[mtnelect]

...so do reputable contractors that don't want to deal with HOA's internal politics and nonsensical or code-adverse rules...

("This is the only HOA approved front door light fixture." "That's nice, it's not UL listed so I can't install it." sort of thing)

When you think you are only dealing with the customer, you are actually also dealing with a committee of other homeowners.

 

[hbiss]

When you think you are only dealing with the customer, you are actually also dealing with a committee of other homeowners.

This is exactly why I would NEVER live in a condo, co-op or development ruled by a HOA.

If I buy something it's MINE and I will not be told by some petty dictators what I can or can't do!

-Hal

 

[petersonra]

Homeowners associations are a necessary evil when you live in a condo or townhouse type situation where there is shared ownership of common areas. The problem becomes when the bylaws of the homeowners association allow petty dictators to take over. Kind of like when we allow petty dictators to rule us from Congress. But people who would be the best candidates to run the homeowners associations generally don't want to do it because they're busy and don't want to take on a job that pays nothing but takes up an enormous amount of time.