Consulting Electrical Engineering Textbook

[seanyb16]

Hello All,
I have just graduated with my EE degree and landed my first job for a consulting engineering firm. I have noticed a majority of what I learned in college does not apply to this industry which is based around power, drawings, and specifying not the Tech stuff I learned. Does anyone out there know of a textbook that could teach me about consulting engineering?? I could really use the help, thanks so much!!

 

[jghrist]

It depends on what type of work you are doing. If you are doing power distribution design in industrial or commercial facilities, then buying the entire IEEE color book series would be a good idea.
See http://standards.ieee.org/colorbooks/sampler/shop.html

 

[seanyb16]

Thanks, I am doing electrical distribution design for facilites, and misc. structures, such as transportation ways. I am looking to get more familiar with equipment used, sizing, specifying, and those types of things.

 

[seanyb16]

Also looking for something just a little cheaper as I did just graduate and don't have $1200 to spend on books, even though those books do look very good!

 

[jghrist]

If I had to choose only two, I'd get the Red Book and the Green Book. I have a Standard Handbook for Electrical Engineers, by Fink & Beaty which comes in handy for some things but is pretty general. It does explain how a lot of equipment operates.

 

[jdsmith]

I'm in a similar situation as you are, except I've started workin now and I graduate in June. I'm doing project work in a refinery and only two of my courses in school are applicable to my new job. I found out about a week ago that my university has a subscription to the IEEE digital library, which means through the university library I can access PDF copies of the Color Books and other standards for free. My employer has purchased PDF versions of the green book and a few standards here and there as well. There are also vendor seminars. My boss handed me a flyer today for a 6 hour seminar next week given by Allen Bradley on their soft starters and motor drives.

jghrist, do you think it's worth us young fellows purchasing the standard handbook? I need to flip through one in the library sometime, but I was debating buying one or asking for it this Christmas or something.

 

[bbaumer]

The first thing I would do is quit that job and go to work for a contractor for at least 3 years, preferrably more. Start as a truck driver, apprentice, apply to the Union, whatever.

The union apprenticeship can't be beat but you have to commit to work for a number of years afterward or you owe them the cost of the education plus it takes roughly 5 years to complete.

The ABC has a decent apprenticeship program now as well, takes less time to complete and is easier to get in to without the commitment, I think, but don't know for sure.

After you're done with that go back to a design firm. Work under a PE for 4 years then take the PE test.

You'll be light years ahead of any of your peers at the design firm or the in the industry period. You can spend all that time sitting in front of AutoCAD and the code books and Stallcups design book and the American Electricians Handbook etc. but you never will get to the same level as you will by working for a contractor first, especially if you carry the tools for awhile.

When I quit the contractor life and went to a design firm I was absolutely amazed at what the Engineers DIDN'T know - and at what I DID and DIDN'T know.

How do I know this? I started out running material (truck driver) for a union EC after college. I was humbled quickly being the hot shot new Purdue Engineering grad I was. Best thing anyone ever did for me. 16 years and a Masters license in one pocket and PE license in the other later and I'm in pretty good shape.

 

[bbaumer]

If you could get some office experience after the field before going into consulting that would be great too. Bidding work and taking a good look at A LOT of prints from different Engineering companies helps a lot.

I am not joking with these suggestions. Yes, it will take you longer with much lower pay for awhile but you will be way better off in the long run.

Not too many folks out there can design it, stamp it, bid it AND install it with their own two hands.

 

[cadpoint]

Congratulations on your level of education obtained to date.

Maybe you could get your employer to pay for some more formal education !

Your pay scale will raise higher and faster then anything previously mentioned earlier.

I can't beleive what I read in some earlier threads, that one would be so smart as to mention so many idiotic suggestions well I guess it takes all types.

 

[mivey]

Textbooks will help but you will learn more by digging the knowledge out of those you work for. They probably have a library of resources they will let you tap into as well. Get them to send you to training seminars/classes and ask your mentors at work to help you pick the best seminars.

[edit: congrats as well]

 

[brian john]

I have heard from several engineers that their university education did not cover anything they work on in the the electrical industry that most of us work in. No code, no material, no installation practices, is something missing from the electrical engineering educational system?

I have had the privilege to work with some very sharp engineers, but I also have had the misfortune to work with some dolts, that new little or nothing about what happens in the "field".

I am sure every electrician on this forum has said at least once, I wish the engineer had some field expierence and realized that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.

 

[bbaumer]

I can't beleive what I read in some earlier threads, that one would be so smart as to mention so many idiotic suggestions well I guess it takes all types.

Not sure if this is directed at me but if so I am sorry you feel that way.

I am speaking from the perspective of someone who was once in the same position the original poster is. He is young and has nothing to lose (I presume no wife and 3 kids). No better time to do this than now.

When I went to work for the A/E firm after contracting the engineers there didn't know the difference between EMT and rigid. They could only follow the "recipe" from the engineers who taught them who didn't know either. They didn't know the first thing about designs that could really be built or maintained, only the "recipes" that had been handed down. Didn't know what materials and methods worked and what didn't and didn't have any idea what goes into bidding a job or what the consequences were cost-wise of some of the overkill, unnecessary things in their specs or "sole spec'd" items.

What they DID know a lot more about than me were code requirements outside of the NEC. There are a lot of electrical requirements in NFPA 99, Ansi 90.1, AIA Guidlines for Healthcare, NFPA 101, NFPA 72, ADA Guidelines and many more codes and standards I rarely had to deal with as a contractor. I pretty much though my world was limited to the NEC at that time.

If these young men get the field and contracting experience I describe followed by the design experience they will name their price and will be able to work anywhere, or work for themselves if they so choose. I know a little about that too.

This advice is not idiotic and was not given in jest. Yes, it will mean a few more years of sacrifice but it will put them years ahead of their peers down the road and pay back very quickly.

 

[mivey]

I have heard from several engineers that their university education did not cover anything they work on in the the electrical industry that most of us work in. No code, no material, no installation practices, is something missing from the electrical engineering educational system?

I have had the privilege to work with some very sharp engineers, but I also have had the misfortune to work with some dolts, that new little or nothing about what happens in the "field".

I am sure every electrician on this forum has said at least once, I wish the engineer had some field expierence and realized that _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _.

An engineering degree gives you a set of tools. Engineers focus more on theory, less on hands-on (more math & science). They are equipped to design and establish new procedures.

Technology degrees focus more on hands-on, less on theory. They are equipped to apply existing designs and procedures.

These generalizations, of course, are by no means a fixed wall between the two but the engineer (at least to start with) should have a deeper knowledge of the theory.

The engineer who wants to have hands-on experience at graduation can participate in the co-op programs (alternate school & work sessions) but it takes longer to graduate.

It doesn't matter what degree you get, there is no substitute for experience. Pass your knowledge along or you will put your retirement life into the hands of a bunch of educated idiots.

 

[bbaumer]

One more thing.

A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

Be a wise man. Try to build what others have designed first. Find all the mistakes in those designs you can by trying to build it.

Then go be a wise Engineer who doesn't make those mistakes the first time.

 

[jdsmith]

I have heard from several engineers that their university education did not cover anything they work on in the the electrical industry that most of us work in. No code, no material, no installation practices, is something missing from the electrical engineering educational system?

Yes and no. Compared to most other engineering disciplines, electrical is very broad. I don't know what percentage of electrical engineering dollars overall is spent on construction and maintenance of residential, commercial, and industrial equipment, but it is a fairly small number when you stop and think of how many billions of dollars EACH of the semiconductor companies are bringing in, and computer companies, and the various types of electronics firms. When you figure that 80-90% of an undergraduate electrical degree is general electrical theory that applies in some form to each industry, it doesn't leave room for much specific material. To put some numbers on this, my EE degree that I'm finishing in June requires 200 quarter hours to complete.

There are:
18 hours of departmental electives (with only two available relevant to the industry - Electric Machines and Power System Analysis, 3 hours each)

6 hours of professional electives - anything semi-technical that one can justify in the context of their career, but College of Applied Science courses don't count

6 hours of technical electives - since I already took all 6 hours of power courses available, I had to find other things

The other 170 hours are from two major areas - math/science and electrical foundation courses. Everyone takes courses in Network Analysis, Signals and Systems, Electronics, Electromagnetic Fields, Digital Systems, and the associated labs. All of these concentrations have applications in a commerical/industrial world or A&E firm, but they're not direct applications.

The thing that's interesting about the analysis above is that any specialist in any area of electrical engineering will come to a very similar conclusion - that very little material is directly related to what they're doing. That's the way the undergraduate degree is intended - to give enough of a background that an intelligent fellow can go anywhere in industry and work. The reason the training can't be more specific is twofold:

1) Some things have to be experienced in the field and there is no way to bring them into the classroom. This is why a number of the mid-grade schools (not purely research oriented) offer mandatory or optional co-op programs. 6 weeks short of a degree and I already have 18 months of experience in an engineering environment.

2) Enough of what is typically learned in the field is locality, plant, or company specific that a large educational institution cannot address these specific needs. The more specific, smaller scale training is sometimes provided through employer-based training programs, or more often young people just have to be around for a few years to get the hang of things. Example: How would you teach an estimating class at a university? There are so many different occupancies, each with code requirements, industry specs (IEEE, API, etc.), company specs, and other engineering best practices that it wouldn't work. It's better for me as a young engineer in a refinery to concentrate on the industrial parts of the NEC, a few of the IEEE color books, and API and company standards. If I'd instead gone to an A&E firm there would be a different list specific to the project group I was working in.

So to answer your question:roll:, I don't think anything is missing from the undergraduate engineering education - it's the same for each sector of EE, and there is an alternative - a master's degree. The problem is employers are in the habit of the first few years being training, so they're not willing to pay more for an MS level engineer who would require half as much training.

 

[jghrist]

jghrist, do you think it's worth us young fellows purchasing the standard handbook? I need to flip through one in the library sometime, but I was debating buying one or asking for it this Christmas or something.

I don't refer to my handbook a lot, but it does have stuff on a large variety of subjects in electrical power. It doesn't go into a lot of depth, but if you need general knowledge of something that you haven't dealt with before, it's a good reference. I'd say that it's worth purchasing.

 

[DPW]

Always learning...

Always learning...

Been in the trade for 30+ years and have changed jobs several times.
From industrial maintenance to process control to product / quality engineering to plant engineering to fire / HVAC controls etc.

Each phase of my career has been augmented by networking with the faithful manufacturer's representatives in their respective speciality.

Start networking through your peers / superiors as to what reps to make contact with. They typically will do lunch-learns with anyone and have tons of info for you to read as well as seminars. Some of these reps will even foot the bill for you to go to the factory for detail workshops. As time goes on, you will develop a speciality niche.

good luck

 

[bbaumer]

I just finished the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki.

http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor-Money-That-Middle/dp/0446677450/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210282149&sr=8-1

It will really make you think about your career, or I should say life choices. Not sure I agree with everything in the book but if I were the original poster's age I would certainly consider going for broke as is described in this book. It is pretty good reading for anyone.

I have a friend who upon graduation from high school took off to Alaska with some buddies working and hitching. Came back a couple years later via California, the desert southwest, Texas and the Gulf of Mexico. Worked several different jobs along the way ranging from fry cook, to survey crew rodman to oil rig crewman. Outside of the military one helluva traveling and working experience. He was telling a small group one day about his story and someone listening was agast. She said, "What would you do if your son told you he was going to try that?" to which he replied without hesitation "I would say go for it!"

You new grads should read the book I mentioned and really take a good look at what you want to do with your lives. I was, regrettfully, Mr. focused, straight and narrow and never took a risk. It has boringly worked out OK for me but I sure wish I would have taken some chances when I was younger just to see what would have happened. I could have afforded to fall on my face back then. No wife. No kids. Small bills. If I had to do it over again I would have tried a lot of different things.

I would LOVE to be in a position now where I could afford to work in a body shop, learn how to really weld (not the hack job I am capable of already), work at a zoo, for a veternarian, trade stocks, wait tables, manufacture potato chips, run a bull dozer, mine for precious metals, be a hunting guide, a butcher, small engine mechanic, travel abroad and see how they do things on the other side of the pond etc. etc. etc. There is a big world out there. I was too focused on electrical stuff and things and didn't learn as much as I could about many different things. I've tried to make up for it over the last 20 years but am now too risk adverse to try too much.

Back then I had something to prove. I was a new Engineer, the first college grad in my family. I wanted to make more money than anyone in my family. I could care less about that now. I value learning, health and time. Like I said before, starting out as a truck driver did me a lot of good. I just wish I would have done more of the different things there are in the world.

Sorry to be on my soapbox so long.

Good luck new grads with whatever you do.

b

 

[Karl H]

I just finished the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki.

http://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor-Money-That-Middle/dp/0446677450/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210282149&sr=8-1

It will really make you think about your career, or I should say life choices. Not sure I agree with everything in the book but if I were the original poster's age I would certainly consider going for broke as is described in this book. It is pretty good reading for anyone.

I have a friend who upon graduation from high school took off to Alaska with some buddies working and hitching. Came back a couple years later via California, the desert southwest, Texas and the Gulf of Mexico. Worked several different jobs along the way ranging from fry cook, to survey crew rodman to oil rig crewman. Outside of the military one helluva traveling and working experience. He was telling a small group one day about his story and someone listening was agast. She said, "What would you do if your son told you he was going to try that?" to which he replied without hesitation "I would say go for it!"

You new grads should read the book I mentioned and really take a good look at what you want to do with your lives. I was, regrettfully, Mr. focused, straight and narrow and never took a risk. It has boringly worked out OK for me but I sure wish I would have taken some chances when I was younger just to see what would have happened. I could have afforded to fall on my face back then. No wife. No kids. Small bills. If I had to do it over again I would have tried a lot of different things.

I would LOVE to be in a position now where I could afford to work in a body shop, learn how to really weld (not the hack job I am capable of already), work at a zoo, for a veternarian, trade stocks, wait tables, manufacture potato chips, run a bull dozer, mine for precious metals, be a hunting guide, a butcher, small engine mechanic, travel abroad and see how they do things on the other side of the pond etc. etc. etc. There is a big world out there. I was too focused on electrical stuff and things and didn't learn as much as I could about many different things. I've tried to make up for it over the last 20 years but am now too risk adverse to try too much.

Back then I had something to prove. I was a new Engineer, the first college grad in my family. I wanted to make more money than anyone in my family. I could care less about that now. I value learning, health and time. Like I said before, starting out as a truck driver did me a lot of good. I just wish I would have done more of the different things there are in the world.

Sorry to be on my soapbox so long.

Good luck new grads with whatever you do.

b

I salute you SIR! "Youth is wasted on the young." As I get older and my apprentices get younger. I realize more and more everyday that both statements are true."Youth is wasted on the young." and "If I only knew back then what I know now." But, then again , it's the process.We all have to go thru it.Some are just better at it or just plain lucky.

 

[Domino]

I too am a young electrical engineer and have had experience starting with an electrical contracting firm.
My advice is to not quit your job at the consultancy as has been suggested. Simply take the time to converse with electrical contractors and electricians and get to see the field from their point of view as well. These guys usually have a wealth of knowledge that you can easily gain from them once you befriend them.
In some ways, working with a contracting firm will be good because you get to see the field from the "bottom" of the design pile however if you are doing it for hands-on experience, the better route would be to work in a manufacturing plant where you will be exposed to a variety of critical electrical systems and your experience won't be hampered by what areas of construction the contracting firm is focusing on. For instance, you don't want to be working for a contractor who focuses mostly on residential installations and rarely anything else when there's tons of important aspects of commercial and industrial installations that engineers ought to familiarise themselves with. In other words, don't drive headlong into a situation where your experience is limited by the opportunities presented to you by your workplace.
Seek out further experience whether that be by networking with other engineers, contractors, electricians or even undertaking an electrician's course.
I don't see the profit in driving a truck when you want to be an engineer but perhaps I'm too young and naive to understand that point.

Continually focus on broadening your horizons and adopt the attitude that you can study just as much now as when you were in college pulling all-nighters for your degree. Use the workplace as a means to apply the knowledge you've gained and to gather further experience and advice from those more experienced than yourself.

There are some really great points made in this thread but really, what's the point of quitting your job just because you're starting in consultancy?