I am looking for some opinions from contractors in Minnesota. My state is considering using contract inspectors and they say this program is being used effectively in Minnesota. I would appreciate any feed back from anyone with experience with contract electrical inspectors on how they feel about this program. If you think it is effective, what complaints or changes you would suggest. Thanks to all.
contract electrical inspectors
- Thread starter jshaw
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allenwayne
Senior Member
Contact Jim W he has quite a few horror stories about contract EI`s.I have only dealt with one or two and they were ok.One guy was pretty sharp the other well was kinda dippy and missed alot of things.
Bob NH
Senior Member
- Location
- The "Live Free or Die" State
With contract inspectors you will get companies who see it as an opprotunity to collect money from contractors and rake off a percentage, with little real incentive to get really qualified people to do the inspection.
I realize you can't expect to get master electricians or even journeymen to fill all of the jobs as inspectors. However, at the very minimum, the inspectors should be required to pass the written examinations on the NEC sections that apply to the work being inspected, and should be licensed by the agency that licenses electricians. Testing should be done by the organization that tests for your electrical licensing. Qualifications for the inspector should include required education and ethical training.
There should be a formal "quality assurance" program that includes spot checks of approved inspections and formal filing of inspection records with the agency that is responsible for code enforcement.
There should be zero tolerance and criminal penalties for any kind of corruption.
Contracts should include provisions for termination without penalty to the government agency of any person or company that fails to comply with the contract terms, or that employs unlicensed inspectors, or that is involved in any form of corruption.
I realize you can't expect to get master electricians or even journeymen to fill all of the jobs as inspectors. However, at the very minimum, the inspectors should be required to pass the written examinations on the NEC sections that apply to the work being inspected, and should be licensed by the agency that licenses electricians. Testing should be done by the organization that tests for your electrical licensing. Qualifications for the inspector should include required education and ethical training.
There should be a formal "quality assurance" program that includes spot checks of approved inspections and formal filing of inspection records with the agency that is responsible for code enforcement.
There should be zero tolerance and criminal penalties for any kind of corruption.
Contracts should include provisions for termination without penalty to the government agency of any person or company that fails to comply with the contract terms, or that employs unlicensed inspectors, or that is involved in any form of corruption.
I can't find Jim W in the member list. What the State is suggesting is using licensed, practicing contractors/journeymen to do inspections and paying them with a percentage of the permit fees. The state would still issue permits, collect fees, collect inspection reports etc. I work for a municipality and we have a contract inspector that does inspections when I am gone. The biggest problem I have run in to is other contractors who resent having "the competition" inspecting their work. As many contractors work in a wide area, I see the potential problem of conflict of interest with a contractor inspecting his own work, or worse, inspecting the work of a competing contractor that he doesn't like.
I was hoping to get some feed back from anyone who has actually had to work under this type of system. Sometimes our government sees that things look good on paper and in theory, but they don't ask the people who actually are affected by the procedure if it works in reality.
I was hoping to get some feed back from anyone who has actually had to work under this type of system. Sometimes our government sees that things look good on paper and in theory, but they don't ask the people who actually are affected by the procedure if it works in reality.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Minnesota contractor here.
We actually have a hybrid system here. State law says the state does electrical inspections unless a local government gets permission to do their own. Working in the Twin Cities metro area, I frequently deal with both systems. Minneapolis, for example, is under state jurisdiction, while St. Paul has their own inspectors. State inspectors are all contract inspectors. All the city inspectors I've dealt with have been city employees.
As for the conflict of interest problem, state law has that covered. If you work as an inspector on behalf of an AHJ, you are automatically barred from having anything else to do with the electrical industry. That means you can't be a contractor or work for one, nor can you own any interest in one. You also can't work for the supply houses. State law requires every AHJ inspector to be licensed as either a journeyman or a master electrician (all electrical licenses are state licenses).
State permits are pretty cheap; only one city I've worked in has had a lower minimum fee. State minimum is $20, with an additional $20/inspection. My guess is that the inspectors get a percentage, but the only way they can make money is if they do their inspections fast. That has been my experience with state contract inspectors. Whenever I meet them in person, they usually seem like they are behind schedule and have no time to waste. They often just take a quick glance at my work and run off to their next stop.
City inspectors tend to be more thorough, in my experience, but not always.
Both systems have their pros and cons. The inspectors I've dealt with have generally been pretty sharp on the code and haven't gigged me for imaginary violations. I also haven't run into any corruption.
We actually have a hybrid system here. State law says the state does electrical inspections unless a local government gets permission to do their own. Working in the Twin Cities metro area, I frequently deal with both systems. Minneapolis, for example, is under state jurisdiction, while St. Paul has their own inspectors. State inspectors are all contract inspectors. All the city inspectors I've dealt with have been city employees.
As for the conflict of interest problem, state law has that covered. If you work as an inspector on behalf of an AHJ, you are automatically barred from having anything else to do with the electrical industry. That means you can't be a contractor or work for one, nor can you own any interest in one. You also can't work for the supply houses. State law requires every AHJ inspector to be licensed as either a journeyman or a master electrician (all electrical licenses are state licenses).
State permits are pretty cheap; only one city I've worked in has had a lower minimum fee. State minimum is $20, with an additional $20/inspection. My guess is that the inspectors get a percentage, but the only way they can make money is if they do their inspections fast. That has been my experience with state contract inspectors. Whenever I meet them in person, they usually seem like they are behind schedule and have no time to waste. They often just take a quick glance at my work and run off to their next stop.
City inspectors tend to be more thorough, in my experience, but not always.
Both systems have their pros and cons. The inspectors I've dealt with have generally been pretty sharp on the code and haven't gigged me for imaginary violations. I also haven't run into any corruption.
memyselfandI
Senior Member
- Location
- Hampton Roads, Virginia
I dealt with one once. Once. I thought he was pretty sharp too until he said that I could not install receptacles in the base board of a residence because it was a code violation. The house was 210 years old, with the old balloon framing that went from top to bottom with no blocking. Wood lathe for the plaster, hand carved trim work. Working on this house was a pucker factor of 10+ and I was not about to touch those walls that have been there for so long for fear of destroying something that had such a history behind it. I asked him what article he was quoting and he said he didn't know right off hand because he didn't have the book with him. After I handed my code book to him he said that he didn't have time to look it up but he knew it was a violation. I just sat there and grinned and explained to him that I need to tell the HO something because he is holding up the sheet rocker. He unwillingly passed it but he was so sure that he was right he made us wait two days before we covered. Not saying anything bad about them, but if you get one you may or may not like what you get.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
In my opinion, the competition has been good. Before the state of Florida changed the legislation permitting the use of private "third-party" inspection services, it was the local government or nothing. I think this made some jurisdictions complacent and sloppy. Some jurisdictions would take weeks to get a permit application approved and perform inspections days after they were called in holding up production. In most cases, competition makes everyone better service providers.
Another way they helped in a more personal way was the effects of the outrageously high wages these organizations were and are paying for inspectors. In some cases, a person with similar qualifications and experience as myself could be paid $10-$25 thousand more a year with a private provider. This made local jurisdictions rethink wages, mine included. I've personally seen a 35% pay raise this year alone, partially due to this new competition.
In the long run when all is said and done, most contractors and builders prefer the local building department. We have only seen a few projects go private and at least two have reverted back to our inspections for one reason or the other.
Another way they helped in a more personal way was the effects of the outrageously high wages these organizations were and are paying for inspectors. In some cases, a person with similar qualifications and experience as myself could be paid $10-$25 thousand more a year with a private provider. This made local jurisdictions rethink wages, mine included. I've personally seen a 35% pay raise this year alone, partially due to this new competition.
In the long run when all is said and done, most contractors and builders prefer the local building department. We have only seen a few projects go private and at least two have reverted back to our inspections for one reason or the other.
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