Contract with GC

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AC\DC

Senior Member
Location
Florence,Oregon,Lane
Occupation
EC
Hello, so I have my first large job with a GC. I know in Oregon I have to have a contract when I am over 2k. I don’t know if that applies to GC also or just home owners.
I asked the GC and, they said no one has ever asked them before.
Any one know how I should approach it.
I will look into when I get home tonight.
Thanks in advance if anyone helps
 
Regardless of the category, when there is money involved, get it in writing. Also, clearly describe your scope of work in great detail in writing and also in the drawings if applicable. Any detail not clearly spelled out in the scope of work, the GC is going to try to stick it to you in my experience.
If the GC or engineering firm wrote the scope of work, definitely check it and ask questions, clarify, etc.
Do you have any references on this GC? GC's have a reputation for not paying and leaving you flap in the wind to hire a lawyer which you are going to lose bad after paying legal fees if you even do get paid.
Do some major research here, getting screwed on a big job can put you out of business.
There are obviously some honest GC's our there, but lots of bad ones too.
 
The only time I don't use a contract is for small work or troubleshooting I do on the spot.

If the job is large enough to price first, I prepare and email a Contract/Proposal.
 
AC\DC said:
Alright, this GC always wants me to bill them to mark it up. Is that normal, or should that be a sign?
Even a 100 dollar job
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I think you’re saying they want you to increase the amount of the bill “on paper” to them?

I’ll be honest, I don’t know all of the legal ramifications for this, but it’s something I won’t do, and I have been asked. I firmly believe if someone wants you to participate in their dishonesty to the customer, you can bet on them being dishonest with you.

Almost every contractor I work for has a cost-plus contract with the customer for things like this to add their O&P. It is pretty much a given that will be 10%.




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AC\DC said:
Alright, this GC always wants me to bill them to mark it up. Is that normal, or should that be a sign?
Even a 100 dollar job
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If he is being billed and giving the homeowner a copy your invoice with his 10% added that’s one thing.
if he is marking up your invoice then adding his 10% he is a crook
 
AC\DC said:
Alright, this GC always wants me to bill them to mark it up. Is that normal, or should that be a sign?
Even a 100 dollar job
Click to expand...
brantmacga said:
I think you’re saying they want you to increase the amount of the bill “on paper” to them?

I’ll be honest, I don’t know all of the legal ramifications for this, but it’s something I won’t do, and I have been asked. I firmly believe if someone wants you to participate in their dishonesty to the customer, you can bet on them being dishonest with you.
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I think he is just asking if the GC has a right to mark up services that he provides for a customer (on a job contracted by this GC).

If that's the question, then yes a GC has a right to mark up the services of any sub contractor.

I have had homeowners that would try to get certain things done without going through the GC because they know he/she will mark it up. I have seen GCs mark things up a lot more than a standard 10%.
 
growler said:
I think he is just asking if the GC has a right to mark up services that he provides for a customer (on a job contracted by this GC).

If that's the question, then yes a GC has a right to mark up the services of any sub contractor.

I have had homeowners that would try to get certain things done without going through the GC because they know he/she will mark it up. I have seen GCs mark things up a lot more than a standard 10%.
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They can mark things up however much they want to, just like you can. If you want to remain competitive price wise you probably going to remain near what it kind of the standards though. If bidding on a job and some part is complex enough you not sure what it is actually going to cost, chances are you bid high just to CYA if the worst scenario plays out. If you are bidding a job you are not sure you want to take on you may also bid high figuring you either won't get it or you will make enough to justify taking on whatever risk concerned you in the first place.
 
AC\DC said:
Hello, so I have my first large job with a GC. I know in Oregon I have to have a contract when I am over 2k. I don’t know if that applies to GC also or just home owners.
I asked the GC and, they said no one has ever asked them before.
Any one know how I should approach it.
I will look into when I get home tonight.
Thanks in advance if anyone helps
Click to expand...
Regardless of the price you should always have something in writing that describes your scope of work and how much it is going to cost the customer that they can approve before work is done. It does not have to be anything real fancy.
 
petersonra said:
Regardless of the price you should always have something in writing that describes your scope of work and how much it is going to cost the customer that they can approve before work is done. It does not have to be anything real fancy.
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Definitely include scope of work, if an engineered full plan is provided then it sort of becomes the scope without much other mention, but without such plans, you definitely need to indicate what you will provide. If anything it is kind of hard to submit change orders when there is no basis to justify a change order.
 
I think that if you are an electric contractor and you are working directly with a plant or engineering firm, you stand to gain money in change orders with scopes of work and drawings that are vague.

I think that if you are working for a GC, you stand to lose money if you have scopes of work and drawings that are vague.
A GC tends to be a money making machine that doesn't care who they crush in their path.
 
powerpete69 said:
I think that if you are an electric contractor and you are working directly with a plant or engineering firm, you stand to gain money in change orders with scopes of work and drawings that are vague.

I think that if you are working for a GC, you stand to lose money if you have scopes of work and drawings that are vague.
A GC tends to be a money making machine that doesn't care who they crush in their path.
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That is part of why you must make the scope of what you bid on clear. Even if you request further info before bidding, if you did not get updated plans or clarification in writing you need to make it clear what the bid covers when the plans are not clear, or even submit multiple bids with a scope of work attached to each.
 
kwired said:
If an engineered full plan is provided then it sort of becomes the scope without much other mention.
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I list every drawing sheet I’ve found with electrical work and page of specs as my scope of work.

Because inevitably, and this just happened to me again on a recent job, an obscure page within a 100 page set of drawings will have a note about the EC F&I’ing a $2k light fixture that is nowhere in the E-sheets or site plans. And I’ll say, “well, that’s not in my proposal. See the SOW.” And then we’ll get a change order.




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brantmacga said:
I list every drawing sheet I’ve found with electrical work and page of specs as my scope of work.

Because inevitably, and this just happened to me again on a recent job, an obscure page within a 100 page set of drawings will have a note about the EC F&I’ing a $2k light fixture that is nowhere in the E-sheets or site plans. And I’ll say, “well, that’s not in my proposal. See the SOW.” And then we’ll get a change order.




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Not bad idea to list drawing sheets and other documents used for the bid.

I was still pretty green contractor on one project, wasn't really a bid but a estimate up front and T&M through the project. They had a nice drawing they gave me for estimating but was only the basic floor and site plans.

At some point near the end of the project I happened to come across some other sub's copies of electrical, mechanical and other plans that would have been nice to have, instead I more less design/built the electrical portion based off what I could get off that floor plan and a few other questions. Even just the ceiling plan would have been nice to have. And to top it off all the flat work was already done before I was even contacted, long enough ago connection to a CEE wasn't something being looked at. But had to bore under a drive to get a line to some of the lot lights and could have easily installed that before the drive was placed, and made a shorter run to the building instead of going around some the parking area if everyone was on the right page at the start.
 
Thanks you guys.
This job had customer designed plans. I included a cad drawing of placement and material from that sheet. Then in my scope of work in the bid. I specified price is reflected from owners design plans.
I think I got my self somewhat covered. This is a huge learning curve.
 
AC\DC said:
Thanks you guys.
This job had customer designed plans. I included a cad drawing of placement and material from that sheet. Then in my scope of work in the bid. I specified price is reflected from owners design plans.
I think I got my self somewhat covered. This is a huge learning curve.
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As mentioned earlier a good thing would be to mention some identifiers on those plans, that way if there is drawings they never gave you or if you got a set of plans that ended up having later updates, you have something to support what you were following when they refuse to pay any change order because you didn't follow the latest plan that you never received.
 
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