CONTRACTORS STATE LICENSE BOARDS - Permits

Status
Not open for further replies.
mtnelect

mtnelect

HVAC & Electrical Contractor
Location
Southern California
Occupation
Contractor, C10 & C20 - Semi Retired
The NFPA was founded by insurance companies to prevent loss of life & property. The electrical contractors are required to follow the NEC to support this principle. In California we have a big problem only 10% of residential work is every permitted. The Contractors State License Board in cooperation with the California Energy Commission is in the process of finding a sponsor in the state legislator to introduce a bill to make it a misdemeanor to not file a permit. At this time CSLB will only issue a "Letter of Admonishment".

So, is this also a problem elsewhere ?
 
mtnelect said:
The NFPA was founded by insurance companies to prevent loss of life & property. The electrical contractors are required to follow the NEC to support this principle. In California we have a big problem only 10% of residential work is every permitted. The Contractors State License Board in cooperation with the California Energy Commission is in the process of finding a sponsor in the state legislator to introduce a bill to make it a misdemeanor to not file a permit. At this time CSLB will only issue a "Letter of Admonishment".

So, is this also a problem elsewhere ?
Click to expand...
Is there any evidence whatsoever that non-permitted residential work is any more dangerous to life and property than permitted work?
 
Where does that figure of 10% of “work” is permitted come from?

And is that 10% of all work, or 10% of work that should have been permitted?
 
Wow.

Another complicated, bureaucratic, elitist, useless paperwork policy, that drives up prices, confusion, frustration, and time wasting.

Yep. Sounds like California. 🙄

Pretty sure if something that asinine actually passed, it would get soundly ignored up here, like many other policies. 👍
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
Wow.

Another complicated, bureaucratic, elitist, useless paperwork policy, that drives up prices, confusion, frustration, and time wasting.

Yep. Sounds like California. 🙄

Pretty sure if something that asinine actually passed, it would get soundly ignored up here, like many other policies. 👍
Click to expand...
Another wrinkle to this permit thing ... In California's real estate law, when you go to sell your house, you must disclose (Under Penalty of Perjury) any information that might change the value of the house. One I come across allot is when the house is appraised, any additions that were completed are excluded if not permitted. So, to get that addition included in the appraisal an "After the Fact" permit must be pulled. And most of the time, the AHJ requires the opening up of walls to pass inspection. It can get complicated !
 
hillbilly1 said:
Safety is only a secondary by product of permits and inspections. The primary purpose of permits is tax revenue.
Click to expand...
This is true ! ... In California they had "Proposition 13", every time the local government was running out of money, they would just raise the property taxes. So, "Proposition 13" was passed. Now the government couldn't raise the taxes more than 1% a year. So, the "Beast" had to be fed .. They decided to create "Special Districts" to get around it, and it worked. Like when you go to pull a permit you also have to pay for a business license. Then "Lighting Districts" were formed, where a fee was charged to every property in that district. Now it's a fee for everything, on home gas and electric bills and so on.
 
petersonra said:
Is there any evidence whatsoever that non-permitted residential work is any more dangerous to life and property than permitted work?
Click to expand...
As I have said many times, here in upstate NY there are very few electrical permits. Larger scope projects that have a building permit will have a line item for electrical inspection (mostly private 3rd party), but there is typically no permit for electrical only projects - at least hardly anyone gets one even if it is available. Then I work also in the Seattle area where pretty much everything requires a permit. I have really not noticed any difference in the quality of work between both locations. IMO inspections generally cover more "administrative" things out of the code, like calcs, labeling, etc, and not really the "nuts and bolts" that would lead to safety improvements anyway, IMO. Been doing this about 25 years, and don't recall ever having a electrical inspector look at one of my splices LOL
 
electrofelon said:
As I have said many times, here in upstate NY there are very few electrical permits. Larger scope projects that have a building permit will have a line item for electrical inspection (mostly private 3rd party), but there is typically no permit for electrical only projects - at least hardly anyone gets one even if it is available. Then I work also in the Seattle area where pretty much everything requires a permit. I have really not noticed any difference in the quality of work between both locations. IMO inspections generally cover more "administrative" things out of the code, like calcs, labeling, etc, and not really the "nuts and bolts" that would lead to safety improvements anyway, IMO. Been doing this about 25 years, and don't recall ever having a electrical inspector look at one of my splices LOL
Click to expand...
I've had both extremes from the same State AHJ dept. Some cases where they hardly look at anything, others where they have actually written up correction notices for conductors wrapped the wrong direction around a terminal screw, and there is or at least was at the time, a code section to back that one up, so like it or not we still had to change it.
 
I've found that every township wants its "VIG". In NJ we are allowed to do minor work without a permit. I think there was a dollar amount attached to that rule. I don't remember exactly but let's just say it was under $500. It covered things like adding receptacles, switches, etc. but not service repairs or house additions. Today, with the advent of the big box stores more and more HO's and hacks are doing electrical work. You can go into a big box store and buy anything from a receptacle to 200A SE cable and all related equipment. I've also found that part of the reason that permits are many times not taken out is that aside from the permit fee, alot of work is often subject to property tax increases. No one I know of enjoys paying more taxes. Another reason is that there are some EI's that over-step their authority or fail a job for the most picayaune issues.

Some have mentioned here that they haven't witnessed any difference in work from state to state. I can tell you (with certainty) that when I remove a receptacle in a kitchen counter backspalash or a light fixture in a dining room, I will know immediately whether an electrician installed it or a HO or hack installed it. I'm sure many of us have experienced that as well.

I don't have a problem with HO's doing their own work as long as they have an understanding of what they are doing and at least make an attempt to do the work correctly. But, if they're doing the work just to circumvent the permit fee and inspection process their lossess could end up being greater than the $$$ they saved. :cool:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top