CONTROL PANEL BUILD

[ROBOJOE77]

I'm a Manufacturing Plant Electrician in Oregon working in a facility that wants to build a control panel inhouse for a new system coming in. Does an industrial control panel built in house require a UL field inspection and label? Or is it just up to the AHJ? And does anybody know, if it is determined that UL labeling is required, will UL issue a label if I'm not UL 508A certified?

 

[petersonra]

I'm a Manufacturing Plant Electrician in Oregon working in a facility that wants to build a control panel inhouse for a new system coming in. Does an industrial control panel built in house require a UL field inspection and label? Or is it just up to the AHJ? And does anybody know, if it is determined that UL labeling is required, will UL issue a label if I'm not UL 508A certified?

UL will not issue a label for you to apply unless you have become part of their ul508a program.

You can arrange for a field inspection via an authorized company that can apply the ul label. It is pricey.

It is much more cost effective to just have a control panel manufacturer who is already authorized build it and apply the ul label.

It is also far less likely that your design will be deficient in some way preventing a ul label from being applied if you allow the panel builder to do the design for you, unless whomever is doing the drawings has a lot of ul508a experience. I spend an inordinate amount of time fixing drawings that come to us so the design meets ul requirements. This often requires change orders to add the missing parts or change to different parts.

By the way, you will need to determine the required SCCR of the control panel to be able to design it correctly. This is not something that can be readily fixed in the field

As for whether it is required or not, that is between you and whomever your regulators are. Most places don't care one way or the other.

 

[Jraef]

100% agree, and having worked in Oregon, you absolutely need for the panel to be listed.

I’ll just add that when you call for a UL field inspection, you pay not only for the inspection fees, but also travel time and expenses for the UL inspector, which add up. I had to do it once in the Portland area because a factory forgot to apply the label, that was back in 1990 and it was $15k total!

As Bob said, have the panel designed and built by a UL508a listed shop, it will cost you less in the long run. If you need some names of people in Oregon, send me a PM. There are many.

 

[ROBOJOE77]

Thank you. that info is very helpful

 

[Strathead]

100% agree, and having worked in Oregon, you absolutely need for the panel to be listed.

I’ll just add that when you call for a UL field inspection, you pay not only for the inspection fees, but also travel time and expenses for the UL inspector, which add up. I had to do it once in the Portland area because a factory forgot to apply the label, that was back in 1990 and it was $15k total!

As Bob said, have the panel designed and built by a UL508a listed shop, it will cost you less in the long run. If you need some names of people in Oregon, send me a PM. There are many.

My kneejerk reaction is why would it have to be listed. I look at NEC 409 and I can't see where it requires the panel to be listed. Not trying to be argumentative, just looking for clarification if I am missing something.

 

[CoolWill]

What a racket.

 

[tom baker]

My kneejerk reaction is why would it have to be listed. I look at NEC 409 and I can't see where it requires the panel to be listed. Not trying to be argumentative, just looking for clarification if I am missing something.

It’s driven by state electrical rules. WA has a definition of industrial control and those are required to be NRTL listed. If there is an inspection and the AHJ opens the control panel door, no UL. 508a label, the job stops

 

[tom baker]

What a racket.

Sorry, no. I have installed hundred of control panels, some were not UL listed, and were deficient. One was a pump control skid with control panel mounted above the piping. That got sent back from Seattle to CA to get corrected
UL listing levels the playing field.

 

[tom baker]

I'm a Manufacturing Plant Electrician in Oregon working in a facility that wants to build a control panel inhouse for a new system coming in. Does an industrial control panel built in house require a UL field inspection and label? Or is it just up to the AHJ? And does anybody know, if it is determined that UL labeling is required, will UL issue a label if I'm not UL 508A certified?

Advantage of a listed panel is you get drawings and a materials list, plus the panel shop will use quality parts that are proven

 

[petersonra]

Sorry, no. I have installed hundred of control panels, some were not UL listed, and were deficient. One was a pump control skid with control panel mounted above the piping. That got sent back from Seattle to CA to get corrected
UL listing levels the playing field.

Ul508a does not care one iota where the control panel is located. It is just not part of the listing requirements.

 

[CoolWill]

Sorry, no. I have installed hundred of control panels, some were not UL listed, and were deficient. One was a pump control skid with control panel mounted above the piping. That got sent back from Seattle to CA to get corrected
UL listing levels the playing field.

Also, sorry, no. I have seen plenty of field built equipment that would put some UL listed junk to shame. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of hacks out there, but being UL listed doesn't automatically make something good or superior.

 

[petersonra]

Also, sorry, no. I have seen plenty of field built equipment that would put some UL listed junk to shame. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of hacks out there, but being UL listed doesn't automatically make something good or superior.

I have never seen a panel out together by an average plant electrician that met the ul508a standards though. They can look pretty but most electricians are completely clueless about ul508a. And really, ul508a is a pretty minimalist standard. Even if you are not listing, it is a good standard to build by.

Plus, how does one assign the required SCCR without UL listing the panel?

 

[CoolWill]

I have never seen a panel out together by an average plant electrician that met the ul508a standards though. They can look pretty but most electricians are completely clueless about ul508a. And really, ul508a is a pretty minimalist standard. Even if you are not listing, it is a good standard to build by.

Plus, how does one assign the required SCCR without UL listing the panel?

You're making the assumption that just because something is required by some authority, that I respect it as gospel. But I don't, not automatically anyway. If I field build something, I just go overkill. I slap it on the side and say, "That ain't goin' nowhere." That's the most important part.

 

[Jraef]

Plus, how does one assign the required SCCR without UL listing the panel?

You don't...

(I know it was a rhetorical question because I know you know this...)

My kneejerk reaction is why would it have to be listed. I look at NEC 409 and I can't see where it requires the panel to be listed. Not trying to be argumentative, just looking for clarification if I am missing something.

Read 110.3(C)... It never says "UL", it is referring to what are generically called "NRTLs" (Nationally Recognized Testing Labs), of which UL is the most well known in the US, CSA in Canada. But there is a longer list maintained by OSHA.

 

[petersonra]

If you do not want your panel listed by UL, etl will list it to the ul508a standard. My understanding is the process to deal with etl is much less costly. But the process itself is very similar.