Control wiring in conduit with feeder wiring

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Red Wiggler

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I am certain this question has been asked before...

Can you run control wiring in the same conduit as feeder wiring if the insulation on all wiring is rated the sam?

What Code Sections can I reference?
 
If the control wiring is Art 725 Class 1 wiring and functionally related, then yes. Class one wiring is wired with a chapter 3 wiring method.
I just replied to an RFI this morning with the following:

While NEC Section 300.3(C) allows conductors of different systems to share the same enclosure, cable or raceway, if the low voltage (control circuits) are considered an NEC Article 725 class 1 or 2, then the rules change.

The typical 120 V motor control circuit from a starter or MCC is class 1 remote control and signaling circuit, and is required to be wired with a chapter 3 wiring method, and can share the enclosure, cable or raceway if functionally related.

725.46
Class 1 circuits shall be installed in accordance with Part I of Article 300 and with the wiring methods fromt he appropriate articles in Chapter 3

725.48(1)
Class 1 circuits and power supply circuits shall be permitted to occupy the same cable, enclosure, or raceway only were the equipment is functionally related

An NEC Article 725 Class 2 is what is typically referred to as a low voltage circuit, most PLC input and output circuits are a class 2 circuit.

While 300.3(C) allows conductors of different systems to share the same enclosure, cable or raceway, NEC section 725.136(A) requires separation from light, power, and class 1 circuits from class 2.

A fine print note to 300.3(C) refers to 725.136(A), and section 90.3 tells us the rules in chapter 7 may amend the rules in chapter 1-4

To summarize, if the "low voltage" circuits are considered NEC Article 725 Class 1, they may share the conduit if functionally related. If they are NEC Article 725 Class 2, then separation is required.
 
I am certain this question has been asked before...

Can you run control wiring in the same conduit as feeder wiring if the insulation on all wiring is rated the sam?

What Code Sections can I reference?

Derating will very likely kill the ampacity of the feeder.
 
I don't think you are ever required to count the control circuit conductors as current carrying for the purpose of conductor derating. 310.15(B)(2), Exception #1.
 
We usually had a company standard in place that #2 AWG and smaller when related to motor feeders and associated control conductors would be routed in the same conduit unless something different was required by a client,,,this was strictly for damage control of the smaller conductors from jamming and pulling problems.When cables to motors became popular when routed in cable tray it was the same rule and the cables were called composite cables.They are still available today but are not used much due to labor costs of splitting out the control conductors when terminating and transitioning to conduit both to the motor peckerhead and the control stations.We also kept power conductors and control conductors of different systems separated.

I really don't think there is a NEC rule,certainly there wasn't in many years past.

dick
 
We always put the conduits with control conductors in the center of UG duct banks because of low current draw and less heating but I think they need to be counted as an example:When a motor is running the holding coil is definitely energized and possible run status lights and control relays,motor space heaters,permissive interlocks also often pick up interposing relays in motor circuits,,,granted none of the above is much but it is there to measure if wanted and yes in the days of hard wired relays it was much greater than todays electronic smart starters..

dick
 
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