Control wiring?

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jerjwillelec

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Nevada, IA
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Master Electrician
I wish I had the opportunity to do more of this but I don’t so I forget things from time to time. I’m replacing old auto transformers starters with soft starts for 30 HP Exhaust Fans. My main question is how the isolation contactor is controlled as well as the unfamiliar (to me) symbols I’ve outlined in the attached picture. I appreciate any help and advice. Thank you in advance!

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I didn't look up your starter; in your box you have a typical stop/start control circuit. Close the start power feeds the coil of km1(the contactor part), it has a sealing contact built on it (k1) in your box, it closes so power will keep the k1 coil energized. How ever if the stop/run selector switch isn't in run then the next contact in series r2 with km1 will not close so the motor won't seal and run. The resistor and capacitor are used in circuits for timing and debounce. (RC time), stops chatter.
That's what I see anyway.
 
STOP is a normally closed momentary contact switch.
START is a normally open momentary contact switch.
KM1 (below start) is a normally open set of contacts on contactor KM1, the coil of which is the circle on the right with a resistor and capacitor across it. L1,L2 and L3 (on the left) are controlled by the main contacts of KM1.
R2 is a normally open set of contacts on relay R2 which is on circuit board A1 (the shaded box with the dashed boarder).

-Hal
 
The normal use operating control circuit is coming in on the Li1 Li2 terminals through the run stop switch.

I would call the KM1 contactor a redundantly operating safety device, shown as a line side input contactor. I would double check this with the manufacturer since there are different ways to do this. What is the preferred arrangement (that they prefer). Any cautions or limitations about line side input power switching and how often.

So the Start Stop switches controlling the KM1 contactor, at this point looks to me like an E Stop or redundant safety device. Possibly not intended for frequent normal start stop control, intended for use as a redundant safety limit circuit.

This I would take back to the soft start manufacturer to be sure, that they see it the same way and meets their intent.

The resistor and cap in series, shunted across the KM1 coil, is for transient suppression.

Missed the R2 contacts. Probably toggles for drive fault and drops out the KM1 contactor. It is for the manufacturer to clarify.

The control input terminals to the soft start are usually very programmable, the the drive setup parameters for the terminals would have to be checked.
 
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You really do not need the isolation contactor in most applications. These are just sample designs and not requirements. Most cases I would take out KM1 and replace its coil with a control relay. A contact from that relay would replace the run stop switch.
 
Thank you! I'm catching on.

Correct me if I'm wrong...is the purpose of the isolation contactor (KM1) to protect the soft start from surges and such when not in use? For some reason, I remember hearing that at some point.
 
R2 is a trip contact within the VFD, probably O/L or anything else that can upset the unit. Looks like the terminals R2B and R2C are the ones you use.
I agree, not sure why they don't draw in conductors to that point.

Thank you! I'm catching on.

Correct me if I'm wrong...is the purpose of the isolation contactor (KM1) to protect the soft start from surges and such when not in use? For some reason, I remember hearing that at some point.

Most these soft starters don't interrupt all three lines when the motor is "off". Just interrupting two lines will result in no current flow and no motor run, but still is going to be voltage at the motor via uncontrolled line. Said contactor will remove all voltage from motor when opened. Is not a substitute for a disconnecting means either though.

I'm also wondering the purpose of the Run/Stop switch off of LI1 and LI2?
Me too. Seems redundant.
 
Most these soft starters don't interrupt all three lines when the motor is "off". Just interrupting two lines will result in no current flow and no motor run, but still is going to be voltage at the motor via uncontrolled line. Said contactor will remove all voltage from motor when opened. Is not a substitute for a disconnecting means either though.

There is also voltage present because the soft start switching is done by semiconductors and there is some leakage to all of the T terminals without a hard contactor. Normally having voltage on one terminal at the mtor just does not matter. You are correct that often to cut costs only two of the lines are switched with semiconductors. Usually the way it works is the soft start is only active for a short period of time and then an internal bypass contactor takes over and shorts around the semiconductors. That way the semiconductors are only on during the acceleration period and even cheaper ones can be used, plus very little heat is generated since once the bypass contactor takes over there is virtually no current through the semiconductors.

The line side contactor is a safety feature for those that need to absolutely shut off power to the thing. There is some potential for a semiconductor in one leg to fail on so you could have a case where you push the stop button two legs going to the motor are still hot so it might single phase. Not real likely, but like many things it could happen.

Whether you need it in your application is a design decision that is at least partly determined by your risk assessment. You did do the risk assessment and determined what risk there would be if the soft starter failed in this way, right?
 
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That particular soft starter is of the type I hate, because it uses a concept of “2-phase control” in which there are SCRs in only 2 of the phases (4 SCRs instead of 6), the center phase is just a piece of bus bar straight through. There is a big risk of losing the motor in that design, because if any single SCR is damaged and shorts, you would have uncontrolled current flowing to one phase of the motor*. So to avoid having this happen, they recommend (although it’s really required) that you then add an isolation contactor ahead of the soft starter so that if it detects that one SCR is shorted, which is what R2 is tied to, it will drop out that contactor to save the motor.

So the control circuit is set up in that case to where your stat/stop energized the contactor and the soft starter immediately begins ramping when it sees voltage from the contactor. R2 is held closed whenever the soft starter does NOT detect a shorted SCR and drops out when it does. The Run selector wired to the other terminal is there in case you want to implement Soft Stop, for example on a pump. But that has other negative consequences too.

This cheap type of soft starter is also very hard on the motor because it works by purposefully delivering severely unbalanced voltage to the motor since one phase is not being controlled. You cannot use this type on heavy loads without risk of damaging the motor. It’s good for centrifugal pumps and fans only with short ramp times of 10 seconds or less.

The irony of this is that the ONLY reason to use only 4 SCRs instead of all 6 is to save cost, then you add that cost back in, and more, by adding that line isolation contactor!

* In a standard 6 SCR design, one shorted SCR does not result in current flow through the motor because there is no return path; you need at least 2 shorted SCRs in different phases for that and that is very rare. In the 2-phase design, the return path, through that bus bar phase, is always there waiting...
 
There is also voltage present because the soft start switching is done by semiconductors and there is some leakage to all of the T terminals without a hard contactor. Normally having voltage on one terminal at the mtor just does not matter. You are correct that often to cut costs only two of the lines are switched with semiconductors. Usually the way it works is the soft start is only active for a short period of time and then an internal bypass contactor takes over and shorts around the semiconductors. That way the semiconductors are only on during the acceleration period and even cheaper ones can be used, plus very little heat is generated since once the bypass contactor takes over there is virtually no current through the semiconductors.

The line side contactor is a safety feature for those that need to absolutely shut off power to the thing. There is some potential for a semiconductor in one leg to fail on so you could have a case where you push the stop button two legs going to the motor are still hot so it might single phase. Not real likely, but like many things it could happen.

Whether you need it in your application is a design decision that is at least partly determined by your risk assessment. You did do the risk assessment and determined what risk there would be if the soft starter failed in this way, right?
I agree.

If one semiconductor device fails and causes to single phase - hopefully your overcurrent protection is set low enough to trip before motor is damaged.
 
I agree.

If one semiconductor device fails and causes to single phase - hopefully your overcurrent protection is set low enough to trip before motor is damaged.

The problem is if you don't have the isolation contactor the trip doesn't do much good in a system with a feed thru on one leg if this happens.
 
The problem is if you don't have the isolation contactor the trip doesn't do much good in a system with a feed thru on one leg if this happens.
I wasn't talking about the motor overload, I was thinking branch circuit breaker. With soft start it shouldn't need to be 2.5 times FLA like it may need to be for direct across line starting. If it single phases with no rotation, it may very well will trip a breaker that is only 125-150% of FLA, in reasonable enough time to prevent much damage to motor winding.

What isn't shown in the diagram is overload protection that does open the circuit to the contactor that is in question - which if you are going to have the contactor would be a good idea to put overload in series with that contactor circuit.
 
Control wiring?

What isn't shown in the diagram is overload protection that does open the circuit to the contactor that is in question - which if you are going to have the contactor would be a good idea to put overload in series with that contactor circuit.

Isn’t the NO contacts of R2 the overload protection which would then open KM1 coil?



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Thank you for the information! Y’all have been a big help! I am using the isolation contactor...just sayin


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R2 is just a relay, but the factory DEFAULT programming for it is as a "Trip" relay, and they warn you that although you have 2 fully programmable relays, at least ONE OF THEM must be programmed to be the Trip relay and the easiest thing is to just leave it as R2. So it will trip on any one of 21 different protection features, one of which is Motor Thermal Overload. You do not need an external OL relay for that soft starter.
 
Isn’t the NO contacts of R2 the overload protection which would then open KM1 coil?



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Suppose it possibly can be, would need more details on the unit. Soft starters I have used have always needed external motor overload, integrated protection was usually for the unit itself and not the motor.
 
R2 is just a relay, but the factory DEFAULT programming for it is as a "Trip" relay, and they warn you that although you have 2 fully programmable relays, at least ONE OF THEM must be programmed to be the Trip relay and the easiest thing is to just leave it as R2. So it will trip on any one of 21 different protection features, one of which is Motor Thermal Overload. You do not need an external OL relay for that soft starter.




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Here’s the before and after:

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I learned a lot through this project. Thank you all again for the wisdom!


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