convenience outlet?

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tonyou812

tonyou812

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North New Jersey
Is it allowable to tap off the line side of a 3ph disco for a convenience outlet. The air conditioner circut is protected by a 20 amp 3ph breaker. 210.63 or 210.52 isnt much in proving you cant should i be looking in the tap rules? I checked the archives but maybe im typing the wrong thing?
 
If you are coming off of the line side of the service, you are creating a second set of service entrance conductors.

230.40 exception 2 permits what you are describing.
Exception No. 2: Where two to six service disconnecting means in separate enclosures are grouped at one location and supply separate loads from one service drop or lateral, one set of service-entrance conductors shall be permitted to supply each or several such service equipment enclosures.
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I think that he's talking about the required receptacle within 25' for servicing AC equipment. The answer is yes, but the way I see it it's how you tap off the line side of the switch that may be a problem.
 
ryan_618 said:
Let me make sure I am reading you correctly first...does this outlet have overcurrent protection?
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Ryan I believe he wants to connect to the line side of an a/c disco that is 3 phase and is protected by a 20 amp 3 pole breaker. I wonder if he has a neutral there.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Ryan I believe he wants to connect to the line side of an a/c disco that is 3 phase and is protected by a 20 amp 3 pole breaker. I wonder if he has a neutral there.
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Saw this done once. An outdoor light fixture connected to the line side of a 208V 3 phase A/C disconnect. No neutral, neutral of fixture simply connected to disconnect can with sheet metal screw. EGC was RMC. Did it work?, yes, legal or safe?, NO!
 
tonyou812 said:
. . . should I be looking in the tap rules?
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If you use #12 to serve your convenience outlet, then it is not a tap. Since you are dealing with an A/C unit, I infer it is a branch circuit, and not a service, to which you intend to connect the new conductors. You can do it if, AND ONLY IF, there is a neutral that is run with the branch circuit, as Dennis has mentioned.
 
steve66 said:
I think 210. 23(A) (2) might prohibit this, but I'm not sure.
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I don?t think it would prohibit it, but it might impose a constraint so severe that it might not be worth doing. I read that section as saying that the branch circuit rating has to be at least double the load of the A/C unit.
 
lets say i decided to run a neutral to keep it easy and quick. if i dont i have to run another pipe 200' just for an outlet that no one is going to use anyway and the guy i work for likes it when its quick, so is it bending the rules to save some time? but the person who origionally ran the wire for the ac unit ran a ground of equal size to the phase conductors and simply used it as egc, the pipe is 2" emt. I would use the wire for a neutral and the pipe as ground
 
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tonyou812 said:
lets say i decided to run a neutral to keep it easy and quick. if i dont i have to run another pipe 200' just for an outlet that no one is going to use anyway and the guy i work for likes it when its quick, so is it bending the rules to save some time? but the person who origionally ran the wire for the ac unit ran a ground of equal size to the phase conductors and simply used it as egc, the pipe is 2" emt. I would use the wire for a neutral and the pipe as ground
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Technically if the #12 ground wire is green you cannot use it as a neutral. Artical 200.6-- grounded conductors #6 and smaller. However, if you repulled the #12 green and pulled a white wire then you can if the A/c doesn't draw more than 50% of the 20 amp circuit. IMO
 
If I were going to pull a new wire, of course using the existing EGC as a pull wire, I'd also pull in a neutral and another ungrounded conductor, giving the receptacle its own circuit, and allowing the AC load to be greater than 10 amps.
 
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LarryFine said:
If I were going to pull a new wire, I would of course use the existing EGC as a pull wire, but I'd also pull in a neutral and another ungrounded conductor, giving the receptacle its own circuit, and allowing the AC load to be greater than 10 amps.
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Exactly, that's the way to go.
 
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