Convenience receptacles at AC condensers

[goldstar]

I had an AC contractor friend ask me to run two separate 120V, 15A circuits for (2) mini-split AC units he is installing at a residence. I installed them in yesterday and afterwards realized that there were no outdoor convenience receptacles within 25' of the units. Would I be in violation if I installed receptacles tapping off the line side of each of the disconnects (AC pull-outs, non-fused) ?

BTW, there is an existing 5 ton AC unit near one of the new mini-split units that is being installed and I'm sure it was was never inspected or permitted as there were no outdoor receptacles installed there either. Should I be worried ?

 

[augie47]

See no problem with your using the same 15 amp circuit for the receptacle.
You should only be held responsible for YOUR installation.

 

[Hv&Lv]

You should only be held responsible for YOUR installation.

In a perfect world your correct.
I’m sure many here have had to do extra work to fix previous work...
I know I have...

 

[hbiss]

See no problem with your using the same 15 amp circuit for the receptacle.

I do. Aren't the two circuits supposed to be sized for the A/C units and dedicated? Operating a vacuum pump off the same circuit while the A/C is running could trip the breaker.

Run a separate 20A GFCI circuit for the receptacle.

Also, why two receptacles? You don't have to provide a receptacle for each A/C unit as long as you have a receptacle within 25 feet of them. It also sounds like that one receptacle will cover that 5 ton unit also.

-Hal

 

[packersparky]

See no problem with your using the same 15 amp circuit for the receptacle.
You should only be held responsible for YOUR installation.

Would 210.23(A)(2) apply?

 

[electrofelon]

120V for a mini split? Never seen that before.

 

[Coppersmith]

Yup, me neither. All the mini-splits I'm involved with are 240v.

 

[goldstar]

I do. Aren't the two circuits supposed to be sized for the A/C units and dedicated? Operating a vacuum pump off the same circuit while the A/C is running could trip the breaker.

Run a separate 20A GFCI circuit for the receptacle.

Also, why two receptacles? You don't have to provide a receptacle for each A/C unit as long as you have a receptacle within 25 feet of them. It also sounds like that one receptacle will cover that 5 ton unit also.

-Hal

One unit is right outside the garage near the garage door. The other unit is on the opposite side of the house near the 5 ton AC unit. I have no idea what the draw on each mini-split unit is. I'm going by what the AC guy told me was needed. That said, I can't imagine that either of these units would draw anywhere near 15 amps. BTW, They are on two separate circuits. Thanks for your advice.

 

[goldstar]

120V for a mini split? Never seen that before.

I haven't either but that's what the AC guy told me to install and that's what I did. If it turns out to be a 240V unit at 15A it's easy to convert but then that flushes my receptacle idea down the drain.

 

[hbiss]

I'm going by what the AC guy told me was needed.

And you are the EC. Read the nameplates on the units and wire/provide OCP accordingly! If they are not available yet, just rough 12/2 and wait.

I have a 7,000 BTU minisplit that cooling me off right now that is 120V.

210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration Equipment Outlet
A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment disconnecting means.

A receptacle fed from the supply side of the disconnect is permissible. If you have a single unit, normally the vacuum pump wouldn't be used while the unit was running. However, if you have multiple units with the receptacle tapped off of one of them, a pump could be connected that would place an additional load on the circuit of a running unit. Either case, there is no way to prevent the receptacle from being used for general use, just like any outdoor receptacle for hedge trimmers, lights, etc.

Tapping off the A/C equipment circuit for a service receptacle is not a good idea unless you are talking about a packaged unit with the receptacle behind access doors.

-Hal

 

[sparky1118]

120V for a mini split? Never seen that before.

I’ve seen one 120 volt mini split unit. A friend of mine bought one on eBay I believe it was and thought he scored huge for the price haha! I had to break the news to him and now he’s pissed because of how expensive it is to run.


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[augie47]

I’ve seen one 120 volt mini split unit. A friend of mine bought one on eBay I believe it was and thought he scored huge for the price haha! I had to break the news to him and now he’s pissed because of how expensive it is to run.


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Why would it be more expensive to run ??

 

[sparky1118]

Why would it be more expensive to run ??

Oh absolutely the draw on the 120 V mini splits is ridiculous! It’s double to a 220 would be if not more! He couldn’t believe how high his electric bill went I tried to warn him


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[augie47]

Huh ?
Electric bills a KWH.. the voltage is irrelevant if the KW is the same.
A minisplit at 5 amps 240v would cost him the same as a 10 amp at 120v.

 

[Sparkey1981]

I have wired a few mini splits that home owners have bought from ebay and websites that are 120v.
I don't know how many guys I work with that I have had to explain KWH to just had this conversation about 110 vs 220 pool pumps

 

[hbiss]

Mine is a Sanyo that I had an HVAC company install maybe 12-15 years ago. I don't see anything abnormal about my electric bill. It doesn't use a variable speed condenser though, like the newer ones. So I could see it being not as efficient. But being 120V should make any difference.

-Hal

 

[goldstar]

Well, here's the end result. I installed both circuits and disconnects in a neat and Code compliant manner.

And you are the EC. Read the nameplates on the units and wire/provide OCP accordingly! If they are not available yet, just rough 12/2 and wait.
-Hal

Yes Hal, I am the EC but I didn't have access to the nameplate on the unit. They weren't on the job-site at the time I installed the wiring. I installed what the AC guy told me to install. Aside from the convenience receptacles it was a neat, workmanlike and Code compliant installation. If it turns out that it requires a 20A circuit then he will have to pay me to make the change. If and when this gets inspected and if it gets tagged for not having convenience receptacles, then he will have to pay me to install them. Contrary to popular belief, I'm in business to make $$$

 

[jap]

Installing a receptacle within 25' of a HVAC unit on a new install is not up for debate, it's a code requirement just like anything else.

They go hand in hand.

I wouldn't be too happy about having to pay an electrician twice to do something that should have been done in the first place.

But that's just me.

 

[jap]

See no problem with your using the same 15 amp circuit for the receptacle.
You should only be held responsible for YOUR installation.

And one of the responsibilities for installing a convienience outlet within 25' of a new HVAC unit is the responsibility of the Electrical Contractor if there's not one for that purpose within that distance already.

JAP>

 

[hbiss]

If it turns out that it requires a 20A circuit then he will have to pay me to make the change. If and when this gets inspected and if it gets tagged for not having convenience receptacles, then he will have to pay me to install them. Contrary to popular belief, I'm in business to make $$$

And one of the responsibilities for installing a convienience outlet within 25' of a new HVAC unit is the responsibility of the Electrical Contractor if there's not one for that purpose within that distance already.

We're all in business to make money. Why didn't you just include and charge for the required service receptacles in the cost of wiring the A/Cs?

And don't say that the A/C guy didn't tell you to do it! What does he know??

-Hal