Coordination Issues

[Alwayslearningelec]

If there is a project and they decide to spilt it into two different contracts such as fit-out and distribution or something along those lines electrically and two dofferent contractors get the job does the job become harder for one contractor or another and if so why? THanks.

 

[gadfly56]

If there is a project and they decide to spilt it into two different contracts such as fit-out and distribution or something along those lines electrically and two dofferent contractors get the job does the job become harder for one contractor or another and if so why? THanks.

It gets harder for everybody. I'm going to guess that no owner ever does this more than once. There are two major issues; limits of work and timeliness of installation, especially if the distribution and fit out wind up in parallel. The fit out guy puts all the blame on the distro guy for his delays, and they fight about where panels go and which ones should go in first. I'd rather buy popcorn and watch than be in a project like that.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Thats what i thought. Thanks.

 

[petersonra]

I worked on a project one time where the owner acted as his own GC.

They let contracts out to two different piping contractors to do the piping in one area. The dividing line was an aisle.

As you might guess. Both piping contractors stopped their work at their side of the aisle.

Same job had two adjacent areas being handled by two different ECs. No one ran the conduits through the wall that separated their areas. They just stopped about a foot from the wall and the wires hung out the open ends of the conduits on both sides of the wall.

 

[stevenj76]

That's tarded, who would hire two subs for the same CSI division??

 

[jdsmith]

I worked on a project one time where the owner acted as his own GC.

They let contracts out to two different piping contractors to do the piping in one area. The dividing line was an aisle.

As you might guess. Both piping contractors stopped their work at their side of the aisle.

Same job had two adjacent areas being handled by two different ECs. No one ran the conduits through the wall that separated their areas. They just stopped about a foot from the wall and the wires hung out the open ends of the conduits on both sides of the wall.

The success of a project with many contractors that are either competitors or are all hired by a GC-type owner depends upon the sophistication of the owner and the owner's field coordinators and inspectors. In the industrial sector we do this regularly. In some cases we will award multiple intertwined scopes to the same contractor because of the level of integration - for example if many cables need to be pulled in the same cable tray or if the site is extremely congested. Often we will bid the scopes of work separately and have two competing contractors working in the same process unit at the same time. Generally coordinating the electricians with the other trades is more difficult than coordinating the two electrical contractors with each other. Even if we hire a general contractor and they subcontract the electrical, the general contractors are usually not particularly knowledgeable of electrical work and have a hard time overseeing their subs, so we as an owner have to get involved.

One factor that makes some of this easier is that although we do not require union electrical contractors, the vast majority of our electrical work goes to union contractors. The electricians doing the work all know each other because we have a fairly small local hall, and all of them have worked with each other at times and worked for the other company - it is in their best interest long term to get along because they never know who might be their coworker or supervisor on the next job.

 

[gadfly56]

The success of a project with many contractors that are either competitors or are all hired by a GC-type owner depends upon the sophistication of the owner and the owner's field coordinators and inspectors. In the industrial sector we do this regularly. In some cases we will award multiple intertwined scopes to the same contractor because of the level of integration - for example if many cables need to be pulled in the same cable tray or if the site is extremely congested. Often we will bid the scopes of work separately and have two competing contractors working in the same process unit at the same time. Generally coordinating the electricians with the other trades is more difficult than coordinating the two electrical contractors with each other. Even if we hire a general contractor and they subcontract the electrical, the general contractors are usually not particularly knowledgeable of electrical work and have a hard time overseeing their subs, so we as an owner have to get involved.

One factor that makes some of this easier is that although we do not require union electrical contractors, the vast majority of our electrical work goes to union contractors. The electricians doing the work all know each other because we have a fairly small local hall, and all of them have worked with each other at times and worked for the other company - it is in their best interest long term to get along because they never know who might be their coworker or supervisor on the next job.

Your company is fortunate to have the skill sets neede to choreograph this kind of ballet. Too often, the owner gets cute and after an initial bid comes back and asks for the bid to be broken down by area. Somehow he has the idea that one or more contractors have bid certain parts of the work very differently, and he wants to see if he can get the two low bids. If we have to bid this way, I always make it clear that the breakdown is for "bookeeping purposes only" and that we will not perform the work separately for that price, or I give stand-alone prices for the two scopes and discount back to the original price if we are awarded both.

 

[jdsmith]

Your company is fortunate to have the skill sets neede to choreograph this kind of ballet. Too often, the owner gets cute and after an initial bid comes back and asks for the bid to be broken down by area. Somehow he has the idea that one or more contractors have bid certain parts of the work very differently, and he wants to see if he can get the two low bids. If we have to bid this way, I always make it clear that the breakdown is for "bookeeping purposes only" and that we will not perform the work separately for that price, or I give stand-alone prices for the two scopes and discount back to the original price if we are awarded both.

Wow - I am firmly focused on the large industrial arena and this reinforces why I stay away from less sophisticated facilities. We often ask for various breakdowns but we make it clear that the bids we are requesting are for one or more scopes of work and will not be broken up differently without an opportunity to rebid. The breakdowns we are requesting are used for tuning our engineering cost estimates more than anything. We also issue bills of material and have the scope of work specified to an extent that the material price is what it is - we do not give folks the opportunity to change brands of transformers, panels, etc. We also purchase all large equipment ourselves, directly from the manufacturers if possible. The largest single piece of equipment we ask contractors to provide are I-line panel boards. Cable tray and conduit can add up to six figures on some projects and contractors are free to take risks with those materials, but the final installation will be inspected. Cable is another high dollar item that must be purchased off an approved vendor list with specific series from certain manufacturers being the only cable permitted.