COPALUM

[mitchc]

I was informed that a home I was interested in purchasing has aluminum wiring in certain parts and copper in other. Is a COPALUM approach a good way of fixing the AL condition(I was advised pigtailing is not recommended) or would it be best to replace all with copper? Please note that all walls are finished (Sheet rocked and painted).

Thanks, Mitch

 

[physis]

Re: COPALUM

A lot people say there's no reason that aluminum branch circuits can't be as safe as copper. And I suppose that's true.

But the reality is that terminations are definitely a concern. The chances of having a fire as a result of a bad termination are a whole lot greater with aluminum than they are with copper.

I'm not sure how I'd feel personally about having aluminum wiring. I guess if I personally ensured that all the terminations were done with the necessary care I would be comfortable.

Edit: I don't know anything about Copalum. Isn't it the splicing product that's been tested to death and proven to be a satifactory method?

[ August 09, 2005, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[physis]

Re: COPALUM

This is from COPALUM's web site. This link goes to their "pictures" page. It seems to spend more time on the shrink tube than the splice, but this is what they put up.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to be. I don't understand what the image is showing or what they're trying to say about it.

Some burnt aluminum connections. There's more on their site.

This also from their site.

Aluminum Wiring was used in the construction of roughly 1.5 million U.S. homes built between 1965 and 1973. According to a report published by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), homes wired with aluminum wire manufactured before 1972 ("old technology" aluminum wire) are 55 times more likely to have one or more connections reach Fire Hazard Conditions than is a home wired with copper. This problem only gets worse with time. The aluminum-wired connections that fail tend to progressively deteriorate at a slow rate, and after many years can reach very high temperature while still remaining electrically functional in the circuits. A large number of connection burnouts have occurred in aluminum-wired homes. Many fires have occurred some involving injury and death

Edit: Is it just me or does that wiring at the top look like 16 and 18 or 20 AWG?

[ August 10, 2005, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[physis]

Re: COPALUM

I just noticed you're an IT guy.

I sure hope you don't plan to do anything with this aluminum wiring yourself. You really shouldn't even consider it. I woldn't trust a lot of electricians with it.

 

[mitchc]

Re: COPALUM

Hi,
I don't plan on doing it myself.
My big concern was whether or not to pigtail or rip down a few walls to replace aluminum with copper.

Thanks,
Mitch

 

[petersonra]

Re: COPALUM

a good electrician can probably fish romex in existing walls without having to tear them down. at least in many cases.

personally, I would be inclined to make a stink about the aluminum wire to get the seller to drop the price, and use the savings to get it replaced.

 

[augie47]

Re: COPALUM

and use the savings to get it replaced

and to purchase a whole lot of fire insurance and smoke detectors.

 

[petersonra]

Re: COPALUM

Originally posted by augie47:

and use the savings to get it replaced

and to purchase a whole lot of fire insurance and smoke detectors.

why would aluminum wiring require additional fire insurance and/or smoke detectors? especially if it was replaced?

while aluminum wiring has caused some fires, it is by no means a major cause of fires. stupidity is still the number one cause of house fires. aluminum wiring is way down the list.

we need to keep this kind of risk in perspective.

 

[augie47]

Re: COPALUM

wow panties in a wad? ..was simply trying to express concern..if replaced, obvioulsy no problem..from physis's post

are 55 times more likely to have one or more connections reach Fire Hazard Conditions than is a home wired with copper.

I believe if you could poll the members of this Forum, well over half would be more uncomfortable in an aluminum wired house than one wired with copper......
(simply trying to make a point, apparently not very well, as did physis.."55 times more likely" can't be ignored)

 

[iwire]

Re: COPALUM

Originally posted by petersonra:
while aluminum wiring has caused some fires, it is by no means a major cause of fires. stupidity is still the number one cause of house fires. aluminum wiring is way down the list.

I love numbers, you can get them to show anything.

 

[petersonra]

Re: COPALUM

but even in houses with aluminum wiring, I would bet it is just a blip on the statistics of cuases of fires.

even if aluminum wiring is 55 times more likely to cause a fire due to failure of the wiring system itself, the number of fires due to wiring system failure is extremely low in the first place.

using a phrase like "55 times more likely", even if it is true, tends to distort the reality of the situation in the minds of the person hearing it.

If one were to say there is a one in ten million chance of your house catching fire this year due to copper wiring failure and a 5 in a million chance of it catching on fire due to an aluminum wiring failure, this presents the facts in a more realistic tone, without emotion getting in the way.

 

[iwire]

Re: COPALUM

Bob I agree they chose to say 55 times more likely as a scare tactic.

I did some poking around and found this document at FEMA

Fire Stats

It claims electrical fires are the 3rd leading cause of structure fires out of 500,000 fires in the year 2000.

10% of structure fires are electrical, that is behind cooking 13%, suspicious at 13% and cooking at 22%

If we take them at their word 10% is no mere blip and 55 times that is a lot of fires caused by AL wiring.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Re: COPALUM

iwire posted

If we take them at their word 10% is no mere blip and 55 times that is a lot of fires caused by AL wiring.

I think the aggragate "10%" fires of electrical origin needs to be parsed of extension cord misuse, space heater, motor burn, luminaire lamp heat causes, overvoltage, overfusing, and other things that I'm sure y'all can think of, before we get down to the subset of conductors that are Al or Cu and how the conductor fails catastrophically at terminations.

I'm leaning more in the "blip" direction, myself.

 

[iwire]

Re: COPALUM

Al it's all in how the numbers are presented.

What, you don't believe that the likely inflated 10% consists of only electrical fires at the device terminations?

 

[petersonra]

Re: COPALUM

I am suspicious of some of the causes reported as well. recently, a house burned down in this area. the HO stated that she observed sparks coming from an outlet that started the fire.

The fire dept decided that she was hallucinating and stated it was children lighting off fireworks inside the house.

 

[petersonra]

Re: COPALUM

my guess is that the vast majority of electrical fires are not in the electrical system, but rather in electrical equipment such as extension cords.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: COPALUM

my guess is that the vast majority of electrical fires are not in the electrical system, but rather in electrical equipment such as extension cords.

Thats not what the AFCI people told CMP2.

 

[petersonra]

Re: COPALUM

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:

my guess is that the vast majority of electrical fires are not in the electrical system, but rather in electrical equipment such as extension cords.

Thats not what the AFCI people told CMP2.

Where did they get their data from?