cord gfci extension

[Geoff23x]

Installing a dishwasher and the dishwasher has a cord that plugs into an outlet. 2014 nec says a dishwasher needs to be on a gfci. So what they are doing is installing a 3' gfci extension cord between the outlet and the dishwasher cord and saying its GFCI protected. I'm saying that cant be used as a permanent solution. If the GFCI cord is hard wired into the dishwasher then its permanent. They said I was full of it and I'm looking at them saying I'm right (i think). Wanted to double check.

 

[user 100]

Installing a dishwasher and the dishwasher has a cord that plugs into an outlet. 2014 nec says a dishwasher needs to be on a gfci. So what they are doing is installing a 3' gfci extension cord between the outlet and the dishwasher cord and saying its GFCI protected. I'm saying that cant be used as a permanent solution. If the GFCI cord is hard wired into the dishwasher then its permanent. They said I was full of it and I'm looking at them saying I'm right (i think). Wanted to double check.

Imo, their idea isn't legal for a permanent solution.

210.8(D):

"GFCI protection shall be provided for
outlets that supply dishwashers in dwelling unit locations"

The gfci protection has to be either at the outlet itself, or be provided before the outlet, not after- an ext cord is not an outlet (see art 100 def), as it is not part of the wiring system.

 

[kwired]

IMO 210.8(D) and the reasoning it was added contradicts with the title of 210.8 "Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel"

The reason it was added has nothing to do with personnel protection, I think it should be a consumer product safety issue in the first place and that recalls should be issued for units that caused the fires that prompted this, but if it is going to go into code probably needs to be somewhere in art 422 not in 210.8.

That said, everything else in 210.8 the intent is to have protection at the receptacle outlet, as we are trying to protect people from electric shock from use of the receptacles in question here, if the goal of GFCI on the dishwasher was only for preventing the fires that prompted putting this requirement in there, then it kind of doesn't matter if the receptacle is protected or not, just the machine.

I don't know if there was any changes to this in 2017.

 

[JFletcher]

A 3' GFCI cord cannot be used as permanent wiring; 400.8.

 

[kwired]

A 3' GFCI cord cannot be used as permanent wiring; 400.8.

That one gets a little trickier since the dishwasher is generally allowed to be cord and plug connected anyway, and can even pass through a cabinet wall to get to the receptacle in the adjacent cabinet.

But such extension device is likely hard to comply with 422.16(B)(2).

Also the GFCI device must be readily accessible, but if your AHJ allows a GFCI receptacle under the sink, then this one may pass that particular aspect.

Another thing that isn't code related is most GFCI cordsets will need reset anytime power has been lost, that is just how they need to be designed to be listed.

Most of them also cost more then just getting a GFCI receptacle and installing it in the first place, don't they?

 

[petersonra]

Another thing that isn't code related is most GFCI cordsets will need reset anytime power has been lost, that is just how they need to be designed to be listed.

I have several appliances that have GFCI cordsets and they do not require reset on power failure.

 

[kwired]

I have several appliances that have GFCI cordsets and they do not require reset on power failure.

Appliance cordsets wouldn't necessarily require that, it is extension cordsets with a GFCI protector in them that I am pretty sure are required to prove 120 volts is present before they will reset, and do trip when 120 volts is lost. Can't recall one that wasn't that way unless it was some "homemade" setup.

 

[JFletcher]

That one gets a little trickier since the dishwasher is generally allowed to be cord and plug connected anyway, and can even pass through a cabinet wall to get to the receptacle in the adjacent cabinet.

But such extension device is likely hard to comply with 422.16(B)(2).

Also the GFCI device must be readily accessible, but if your AHJ allows a GFCI receptacle under the sink, then this one may pass that particular aspect.

Another thing that isn't code related is most GFCI cordsets will need reset anytime power has been lost, that is just how they need to be designed to be listed.

Most of them also cost more then just getting a GFCI receptacle and installing it in the first place, don't they?

The cords I looked at were $22-30, so yeah, more than a receptacle, but less considering labor.

 

[kwired]

The cords I looked at were $22-30, so yeah, more than a receptacle, but less considering labor.

If you are putting in a receptacle anyway you have nearly the same labor if you made it a GFCI receptacle instead of a standard receptacle.

If you just want to add GFCI to an existing install that already has receptacle - then I guess the cord set GFCI is likely less cost altogether.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have several appliances that have GFCI cordsets and they do not require reset on power failure.

Are you sure they aren't ALCI cord sets?

Another GFCI-Type device is an appliance leakage current interrupter (ALCI). It is a device intended to be used in conjunction with an electrical appliance and is designed to interrupt the circuit when a ground fault current exceeds 6 milliamps. It is not the intent to replace a GFCI with an ALCI where a GFCI is required by the NEC and it does not take the place of the branch circuit overcurrent protection device in the circuit.

 

[kwired]

Are you sure they aren't ALCI cord sets?

Another GFCI-Type device is an appliance leakage current interrupter (ALCI). It is a device intended to be used in conjunction with an electrical appliance and is designed to interrupt the circuit when a ground fault current exceeds 6 milliamps. It is not the intent to replace a GFCI with an ALCI where a GFCI is required by the NEC and it does not take the place of the branch circuit overcurrent protection device in the circuit.

Such a thing would probably solve the issue that prompted the NEC to add the GFCI protection requirements for dishwashers, but as is written is wouldn't really comply.

Ever since they added that requirement I have felt they took the wrong approach, and that it should have been listing requirements of the appliance that needed changed not NEC.