Cost estimating: NECA vs. RS Means

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Jbuchberg

Member
Location
United States
Hello All!

I am currently reviewing a change order for and using RS means as my reference for labor and material costs. The contractor has come back with NECA values for all these. I have noticed a large difference in labor cost between NECA and RS Means for various Conduit fittings and would like to know if anyone else has noticed these or has a reason for this.

Thank you!!!
 
C

cdslotz

Senior Member
Jbuchberg said:
Can you explain a little more. Simply stating to throw away Means is not an acceptable answer as to why NECA should be used over Means
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To be fair, I have only used Means to look at sq/ft values of electrical on different types of buildings (hospitals, warehouse, etc...). Means is always high, and the variations of pricing by region are all over them map, which renders it useless imo...

NECA units are on the high side too, but are consistent with units in Accubid, Conest, McCormick, EBM, and every published labor unit book I have ever used...especially on the small nuts and bolts items like fittings, straps, etc...

Give us an example of what particular fittings, and how the labor units compare Means vs NECA
 
6

69gp

Senior Member
Location
MA
Means is always more expensive. Just remember if you price extra's using the Means book then when a deduct comes up they will require you to do the deduct via the Means. I usually used both NECA and Means and try and figure a good average. I dont go for the kill just want a fair price.
 
S

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Jbuchberg said:
Can you explain a little more. Simply stating to throw away Means is not an acceptable answer as to why NECA should be used over Means
Click to expand...

This can cause a knee-jerk reaction by some people, me included. The best advice I have heard is from a General Contractor project manager. Review the work that needs to be performed and see whether the price passes a "smell test". If it doesn't stink then let it go. It is very difficult to quantify the true cost of a change order, but one thing I promise you, if you don't like my first price, I promise you won't like my second one. If the person you are reviewing has everything but the kitchen sink in the change order, like plan printing, copier fees, vehicle cost, project manager and estimator time, timekeeper time, every screw, nut bolt, caulking, material handler, material handler's truck and fuel, etc. then let it go. You can make an argument that some of the things are part of the piddly 10% overhead that is often allowed today, but I will successfully argue that it isn't. No change order, I don't use these things, change order, and these costs are directly associated with performing that one task. Plus, are you sure the contractor hasn't done anything for free? Because I ALWAYS do, partly as a cynical electrician just so that I have an argument when I am accused of charging too much for a change order. Believe me, I would rather have a job that is 100% properly designed with zero change orders, any day!
 
rey-man

rey-man

Senior Member
Location
New york
also, with NECA the labor rates vary depending on the difficulty of the installation. NECA is a better reference than Means.
 
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