Counterfeit UL Labels on Signs

[bphgravity]

UL is serious when it comes to counterfeit labeling of electrical equipment:




http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/pa...ounterfeit-fraud-20100604,0,955293,full.story

 

[cadpoint]

Is it state law in Florida to have the UL listing, and who exactly investigated this?

So that means that only the sign manufacturer can service the sign for it's life time?

 

[cadpoint]

This reason I ask who investigates this; is due to the fact that they have City and County ordinances here in NC. It is a true revenue source.

Some examples that are covered includes inside signs-displaying to the outside, outside signs, the size and type of the sign; for example a pole sign (needs a Seal) and a site plan and one will pay accordingly per size!
It even gets into outside canopy's with Signage!

I looked at signage in the NC State Status but didn't locate it it right off as to be UL required!

Kind of unrelated!
I frankly find it some what bizarre but the ABC laws in VA do not allow any beer or liquor signage inside or outside an establishment... coasters are OK...

 

[hurk27]

Kind of unrelated!
I frankly find it some what bizarre but the ABC laws in VA do not allow any beer or liquor signage inside or outside an establishment... coasters are OK...

Here in Indiana, it was this way also until they found a loophole that allows the signage only if it is not supplied by the manufacture or distributor of the beverage, so now there everywhere.:roll:

 

[Jraef]

...
So that means that only the sign manufacturer can service the sign for it's life time?

How did you get to that from this article?

NRTL listing has to do with inspections on initial permitted installations and maybe any subsequent inspections when additions are made, but means nothing regarding servicing. Of course you (a licensed electrical contractor) can service existing electrical equipment without being the original manufacturer.

My take on that article was that it was UL investigators who caught him, although you're right, they never made it clear in the article why he was being investigated in the first place. We might guess it would be a disgruntled competitor blew a whistle, but that's a dangerous game because you cannot predict the outcome. More likely UL got suspicious because he never ordered replacement labels and yet was still in business. All that takes is someone running a computer with a data base program to say "ABC company has not reordered labels for XX years, is he still in the UL listed sign business?" If yes, send investigator...

 

[cadpoint]

Originally Posted by cadpoint
...
So that means that only the sign manufacturer can service the sign for it's life time?

How did you get to that from this article?

Your exactly right, this was a stretch on my part!(my own statement above) First off you have to understand that our state NC have ten various licenses and a sign license is one of them. NC Board It's been made clear in the laws,
reading the bi-yearly newsletter that the board of the state has made it perfectly clear that having one doesn't necessarily allow one to dwell in another license.

NRTL listing has to do with inspections on initial permitted installations and maybe any subsequent inspections when additions are made, but means nothing regarding servicing. Of course you (a licensed electrical contractor) can service existing electrical equipment without being the original manufacturer.

My take on that article was that it was UL investigators who caught him, although you're right, they never made it clear in the article why he was being investigated in the first place. We might guess it would be a disgruntled competitor blew a whistle, but that's a dangerous game because you cannot predict the outcome. More likely UL got suspicious because he never ordered replacement labels and yet was still in business. All that takes is someone running a computer with a data base program to say "ABC company has not reordered labels for XX years, is he still in the UL listed sign business?" If yes, send investigator...

The manufactures NRTL label at install I can understand the UL, not so much. JMO I even took the time to research my State requirements but never found the exact statement to anything being UL listed at the State level, If I dealt with that principle I would know all the laws!

Now I know that there are requirements to be met and maintained being with either one! I can only summarize that's exactly what happened in blue-above.

Since the Article, I've tried to see any UL sticker on new installs of signs about town, mostly I just see the city numbered sticker... and not that one or both of the other stickers just don't exist. I also don't want to look like I'm casing the joint

I feel sometimes that there's a lot of umbrella's floating around that do electrical work, since mechanical, LV guys can have some electrical install rights, this I see on bigger jobs, it's both curious and stunning at times.

Thanks for the observations and thoughts.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Your exactly right, this was a stretch on my part!(my own statement above) First off you have to understand that our state NC have ten various licenses and a sign license is one of them. NC Board It's been made clear in the laws,
reading the bi-yearly newsletter that the board of the state has made it perfectly clear that having one doesn't necessarily allow one to dwell in another license.



The manufactures NRTL label at install I can understand the UL, not so much. JMO I even took the time to research my State requirements but never found the exact statement to anything being UL listed at the State level, If I dealt with that principle I would know all the laws!

Now I know that there are requirements to be met and maintained being with either one! I can only summarize that's exactly what happened in blue-above.

Since the Article, I've tried to see any UL sticker on new installs of signs about town, mostly I just see the city numbered sticker... and not that one or both of the other stickers just don't exist. I also don't want to look like I'm casing the joint

I feel sometimes that there's a lot of umbrella's floating around that do electrical work, since mechanical, LV guys can have some electrical install rights, this I see on bigger jobs, it's both curious and stunning at times.

Thanks for the observations and thoughts.

As of the last year, I see more and more sign contractors putting the UL labels on the top of the sign/letters because the customers don't want to see them. I also see a lack of manufacturers labels, and the guys that built it are not necessarily the guys who installed it.

I also have my handy dandy UL authenticator for gold hologram labels.

Also UL labels cannot be field installed on a sign, without a rep from UL present.

If you want an authenticator you can probably write to UL at anticounterfeiting@us.ul.com