cover plates for abandoned empty junction boxes

[bthouse]

I am currently replacing an existing fire alarm system. We are installing new raceways, device and junction boxes for the new system. Once the new system is online we will demo and remove the existing system's wiring, devices, and panels. My question involves the existing system's raceways and junction boxes. Once we demo the existing wiring all of the old conduits and junction boxes will be empty. Does the NEC require installing cover plates on abandoned junction boxes if they are empty and contain no conductors? If a portion of a raceway is to be demoed, is there a requirement for how much of the raceway has to be removed? If the raceway is empty can you remove the section of conduit to the next coupling and then abandon? Or does the demoed raceway have to be removed all the way to the next junction box, then plug the open knock out? I found code articles relating to abandoned wiring and outlets, but was unable to find anything about abandoned raceways and junction boxes. help me out boys

 

[jumper]

AFAIK, the NEC does not require the removal of abandoned raceways or the installation of covers on enclosures/boxes that do not contain conductors.

 

[qcroanoke]

AFAIK, the NEC does not require the removal of abandoned raceways or the installation of covers on enclosures/boxes that do not contain conductors.

I would add that if you use back existing blank covers that if they are painted red turn that side in.

 

[kwired]

AFAIK, the NEC does not require the removal of abandoned raceways or the installation of covers on enclosures/boxes that do not contain conductors.

But raceways that are still connected to the 'system' are still part of the system and should be properly capped.

 

[Smart $]

But raceways that are still connected to the 'system' are still part of the system and should be properly capped.

Only to the degree that integrity of the connected equipment is maintained, e.g. dust-tight enclosures.

In most cases of system replacement, visible portions of the old system are removed... leaving the remaining abandoned portions no longer connected.

 

[bthouse]

But raceways that are still connected to the 'system' are still part of the system and should be properly capped.

The existing raceways and junction boxes are not connected to the new system. The existing fire alarm panels and cabinets will be removed. None of the empty conduits and junction boxes from the old system will be connected to the new system.

 

[Smart $]

The existing raceways and junction boxes are not connected to the new system. The existing fire alarm panels and cabinets will be removed. None of the empty conduits and junction boxes from the old system will be connected to the new system.

Removal not required under the NEC. What you do with the raceways and junctions boxes is purely at your discretion (or whomever is paying the bill for removal).

 

[WhiteRook]

empty boxes

empty boxes

Check you prints. If you are directed to remove the empty conduit back to the next box, then it is up to the contractor to patch the holes in the sheetrock where the boxes were. I have always removed the empty fire alarm/electrical boxes that were emptied by direction of the prints.

 

[bthouse]

Check you prints. If you are directed to remove the empty conduit back to the next box, then it is up to the contractor to patch the holes in the sheetrock where the boxes were. I have always removed the empty fire alarm/electrical boxes that were emptied by direction of the prints.

I would agree. However, I'm not questioning whether or not I should install cover plates on empty abandoned junction boxes. My question is does the NEC require it to be done? And if so, in what article is this specified? We had planned to cover all abandoned junction boxes for no other reason but aesthetics. I posted this question because a fellow wireman told me that the NEC requires us to:
1) Install cover plates on empty abandoned junction boxes
2) When demoing a section of an existing raceway, you must remove the conduit back to the nearest junction box
3) When a panel or cabinet is demoed, no vertical conduits connected to that panel or cabinet can remain. Conduits must be removed up to the deck ( or first horizontal junction box)

I am not familiar with the NEC specifically " requiring" any of the above. I didn't argue because the wireman had twice the hours in the field that I do. And hey, maybe he knows something I don't. That being said I searched through the 2011 NEC and cannot find where it " requires" any of the above. If there's anyone out there that can settle this I'd appreciate it.
Is this in the code book or not? And if it is, where? Thanks guys.

 

[Smart $]

I would agree. However, I'm not questioning whether or not I should install cover plates on empty abandoned junction boxes. My question is does the NEC require it to be done? And if so, in what article is this specified? We had planned to cover all abandoned junction boxes for no other reason but aesthetics. I posted this question because a fellow wireman told me that the NEC requires us to:
1) Install cover plates on empty abandoned junction boxes
2) When demoing a section of an existing raceway, you must remove the conduit back to the nearest junction box
3) When a panel or cabinet is demoed, no vertical conduits connected to that panel or cabinet can remain. Conduits must be removed up to the deck ( or first horizontal junction box)

I am not familiar with the NEC specifically " requiring" any of the above. I didn't argue because the wireman had twice the hours in the field that I do. And hey, maybe he knows something I don't. That being said I searched through the 2011 NEC and cannot find where it " requires" any of the above. If there's anyone out there that can settle this I'd appreciate it.
Is this in the code book or not? And if it is, where? Thanks guys.

Not.

 

[bthouse]

Not.

Thank you Smart$. I didn't think these were code requirements, but wanted a second opinion before I wagered money on it. Ok, I'm off to go make a quick $50. Thanks for the input fellas.

 

[kwired]

Not.

I agree. My extra $.02 a few posts back was that if all you did was pull conductors out but left raceways connected to the "system" then those raceways are still a part of that system.

If you had a situation where you disconnect just one short nipple that removes practically all the equipment intended to be abandoned from any remaining system then NEC doesn't care what is done with what has been abandoned - it is no longer a part of what the NEC applies to.