Crawlspace ouside of building ?

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romeo

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I inspected a 4 meter service upgrade yesterday. The electrician ran SEU cable from the meter sockets 15ft. through a shallow crawlspace to the main service disconnects.

I asked him why he didn't put the main disconnects outside and run 4 wire SER cable to the service panels. He said that the cable was not subject to damage because of the shallow crawlspace and should be considered outside the building, and NEC 230.70(A)(1) should not apply.

I think his first mistake was not to call me before doing the work, but that is another story.
Changing this would be a considerable expense to the contractor, that I do not want to cause him, as long as the service is safe and code compliant.

I think that he has a good point about the cable not being subject to damage. The question is are they really outside the building? I am sure some of you have seen this situation before

Commentary in the NEC HANDBOOK says " No Maximum distance is specified from the point of entrance of service conductors to a readily accessible location for the installation of a service disconnecting means. The authority enforcing this code has the responsibility for, and is charged with, making the decision as to how far inside the building the service entrance conductors are allowed to travel to the main disconnecting means.

Ok guys be the inspector, what is your decision? Opinions appreciated.
 
Under a fault or short what is protecting that SEU will it just have to burn clear. As far as damage in a shallow crawl. Rodents love chewin on that.
 
Re: Crawlspace ouside of building ?

romeo said:
The authority enforcing this code has the responsibility for, and is charged with, making the decision as to how far inside the building the service entrance conductors are allowed to travel to the main disconnecting means.
Click to expand...

There you go. Sounds like the contractor found an easy way to save some money on the installation, and the Handbook, and the NEC gives you the authority to approve the installation. I personally would put the safety of the people in the building ahead of the contractors ability to save a buck.
 
I agree with Greg,

Running an SER cable in a crawl space doesn't meet the definition of "outside the building" as described in 230.6(1)-(4).

Chris
 
It pains me to say this but IMO the EC messed up and should be required to change the installation in some way.

Move the service disconect.

Encase the conductors in concrete or brick.

It may not be 'nice' to this EC but if you let this slide it is unfair to other ECs that may have bid the job correctly.
 
If you decide to have him make the corrections, it is not you who cost the contractor money, it is his ignorance in either not calling you, or not knowing it is incorrect and unsafe. He may even know it is incorrect, and is playing on your generousity. Like Bob said also, the other contractors may have bid higher on this job - he was low bid thinking he could get away with it. It makes it hard for the legitimate contractor to compete.

Do this contractor a favor he will not forget.... have him make the corrections.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
If you decide to have him make the corrections, it is not you who cost the contractor money, it is his ignorance in either not calling you, or not knowing it is incorrect and unsafe. He may even know it is incorrect, and is playing on your generousity. Like Bob said also, the other contractors may have bid higher on this job - he was low bid thinking he could get away with it. It makes it hard for the legitimate contractor to compete.

Do this contractor a favor he will not forget.... have him make the corrections.
Click to expand...

Bet he will call first next time too.Dont feel bad about his cost,do what you know you should
 
I had a similar situation a few years ago. We are allowed a max of 8' of unprotected service conductor in the building in WI.
I called the AHJ and described the crawl space. The Chief said I was still inside the building per definition of a building.
That's all I needed to here to redesign.

What is your max length of unprotected service conductor allowed? Does your state have a max length allowed?

If you have specific written requirements did the EC violate the local Code?

I think 15' is too far. Also I agree the rodents and other "crawl space critters" will have a field day with the cable!
 
When you do red tag it, remind him of Iwires' suggestion with the encasing in brick. Personally I had forgot about that as I have never needed it. This may be cheaper for him.
 
Crawlspace Outside of Building?

Crawlspace Outside of Building?

I thank each of you for your reply. I am not surprised that no one
thought this service should be approved. (and it won't be)

It is obvious by your replys that all of us in this forum are more concerned about code compliant electrical work for the safety of persons and property, than finding a way to outsmart inspectors for the purpose of cutting cost of electrical installations.

I think that all of us that take advantage of Mike Holts generosity by spending time in this forum to improve our knowledge of the industry are to be congratulated.

Thanks again romeo
 
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