Crawlspace shuffle

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Since there is no service disconnect on the outside of the building the conduit run in the crawlspace need to be encased in 2" of concrete.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with Infinity. It was the very same point I planned to make, before noticing that he beat me to it. Though I suspect it would be easier to install a disconnect outside, make that the service point, and do whatever other changes are needed with regard to bonding and separating neutrals and grounds.
 

PaulMmn

Senior Member
Would seem to be 'easy' to run a 4th conductor down the duct in the crawl space and install a disconnect at the meter.

And some more questions:
What's the orange 'pipe' running off from behind the meter.

Is that an extension cord coiled up in there?

What's that other pipe in between the conduits to the meter housing?

And what's strapped to one of the conduits into the meter housing?
Looks like a hose bib to the left of the conduits.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Would seem to be 'easy' to run a 4th conductor down the duct in the crawl space and install a disconnect at the meter.

And some more questions:
What's the orange 'pipe' running off from behind the meter.

Is that an extension cord coiled up in there? No that looks like the cable company underground wiring which is run in the orange inner duct.

What's that other pipe in between the conduits to the meter housing? Maybe for the GEC to the ground rods?

And what's strapped to one of the conduits into the meter housing? CATV?
Looks like a hose bib to the left of the conduits.
Yes that's a hose bib.
 

tonype

Senior Member
Would seem to be 'easy' to run a 4th conductor down the duct in the crawl space and install a disconnect at the meter.

And some more questions:
What's the orange 'pipe' running off from behind the meter.

Is that an extension cord coiled up in there?

What's that other pipe in between the conduits to the meter housing?

And what's strapped to one of the conduits into the meter housing?
Looks like a hose bib to the left of the conduits.
Orange cable is cut off... not used... and is routed in the orange pipe.

Could not trace what the conduit in between serviced.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Wonder why they didn’t run SER and secure it to the bottom of the joist


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It would still have been an excessive length of service conductors inside the building. Possibly the installer thought that it would be OK if run in conduit. (It's not.,..)
 

sparky1118

Member
It would still have been an excessive length of service conductors inside the building. Possibly the installer thought that it would be OK if run in conduit. (It's not.,..)
Regardless with how much SER is run in the building if it was done properly with a meter main it wouldn’t of mattered the length of the run.


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tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
the NEC does not have limit on how far unfused service entrance conductors can run in a building, but often local jurisdictions do. In Washington, its 15 feet of raceway. If this installation was in WA,then the raceway would be encased in 2" of concrete, or a disconnect installed at the meter, then the raceway is a feeder.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
The NEC language, "nearest the point of entry" indeed does not set a hard limit, leaving it up to local AHJs to interpret either by setting their own measurements or normalizing a more flexible case by case judgement. But I doubt that any jurisdiction, when asked, would say that the OP's example is compliant.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
The NEC language, "nearest the point of entry" indeed does not set a hard limit, leaving it up to local AHJs to interpret either by setting their own measurements or normalizing a more flexible case by case judgement. But I doubt that any jurisdiction, when asked, would say that the OP's example is compliant.
In Tony's jurisdiction it would not be compliant unless that elbow turned up directly into the service disconnect.
 

jap

Senior Member
Come on guys.

All I've heard in the previous 15 posts is disconnect,disconnect, disconnect, disconnect, disconnect.....

You could install Umpteen disconnects between the meter and the service panel in this scenario and you'd still be no better off unless you installed some type of OCPD at the beginning.

JAP>
 

jap

Senior Member
Without OCPD at the meter location what looks like service conductors, smells like service conductors and acts like service conductors are still simply service conductors.

Not feeders.

JAP>
 

PaulMmn

Senior Member
I was 'assuming' that the 'disconnect' would be a breaker, not just a switch! :roll:

I -did- say it would be 'easy' to pull a 4th conductor down the duct....
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Come on guys.

All I've heard in the previous 15 posts is disconnect,disconnect, disconnect, disconnect, disconnect.....

You could install Umpteen disconnects between the meter and the service panel in this scenario and you'd still be no better off unless you installed some type of OCPD at the beginning.

JAP>
I said a service disconnect which is required to have an OCPD in or adjacent to it so it should be understood that it will have overcurrent protection. I would assume that the others meant the same. ;)

230.91 Location. The service overcurrent device shall be an
integral part of the service disconnecting means or shall be
located immediately adjacent thereto. Where fuses are used as
the service overcurrent device, the disconnecting means shall
be located ahead of the supply side of the fuses.
 

jap

Senior Member
I said a service disconnect which is required to have an OCPD in or adjacent to it so it should be understood that it will have overcurrent protection. I would assume that the others meant the same. ;)

You're usually the exception to my disputes infinity,,, you know that by now. :lol:


JAP>
 
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