Creative Help Required

[tallgirl]

I've been asked to make a parts list and materials cost estimate for wiring a house.

Except, there's a catch.

They presently do not have gas service (no gas in the Lower 9th Ward near the house), but the owner previously had all gas appliances and apparently would like them replaced. I've been assured that a plumber has been asked to run gas pipe everywhere, so it seems like a waste to run electric as well. My advice was to pick one or the other, but I was told no, figure everything out for an all electric house.

Obviously a number of things are going to be hella more expensive and possibly all for nothing. Anyone have any ideas? This was a simple 1,200 sqft 2 bedroom with a 125A service yesterday and now it's a convoluted mess.

 

[LarryFine]

Julie, in my opinion, a 100a service is enough for even an all-electric house that small.

As for all-electric or gas, figure it both ways, but I would do as the customer requests.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Price it for electric with an alternate for gas appliances.

 

[ptonsparky]

What kind of heat load do you figure in that area?

 

[tallgirl]

Julie, in my opinion, a 100a service is enough for even an all-electric house that small.

As for all-electric or gas, figure it both ways, but I would do as the customer requests.

You're probably right on the service side -- I knew 125A would be sufficient considering that's the minimum. What's confusing me is what to calculate as the load. I assume it's safe to calculate it as an all electric house as the load should they go with all gas would be lower?

 

[hardworkingstiff]

You're probably right on the service side -- I knew 125A would be sufficient considering that's the minimum. What's confusing me is what to calculate as the load. I assume it's safe to calculate it as an all electric house as the load should they go with all gas would be lower?

That's exactly what I would do.

 

[tallgirl]

I was finally bit by the duplicate posting bug!!!

 

[charlie b]

They presently do not have gas service (no gas in the Lower 9th Ward near the house), but the owner previously had all gas appliances . . . .

That must have made it tough to cook dinner! :wink: :grin:

Just so's I knows, and to clearifie the sitcheeation, does this house have its own propane tank, as mine does, to allow for gas cooking?

The NEC does not require that a dwelling unit's service calculation include a provision for electric cooking. The wording is a bit odd (no surprise there), but that is my conclusion. So if the owner states that there will not be an electric range, then don't include it in your load calculation, nor in your list of materials. But do include a statement, in the text of your summary statement (cover letter, whatever), to the effect that provisions for electric cooking were excluded, so they can't come back later and claim you had made an error.

 

[tallgirl]

AFCIs

AFCIs

So, I'm unsure of the exact dimensions of this house, and the guy I'm coordinating with doesn't have them yet either. I figure the general lighting load at something north of 4kVA (because 1200 sqft is a minimum guess ...), which means likely more than 2 20A BCs for general purpose crud. About 2/3rds of the floor plan that isn't kitchen or utility room is bedroom, so I was thinking I'd run both bedrooms, bathroom lighting, hallway, and an outlet in the living room near the opening to the hallway on 2 AFCIs (NOLA is now on the '05 NEC), then the family room area, kitchen and utility lights on a third 20A BC, with the kitchen (obviously) on the 2 SABCs, and utility on the appropriate utility circuits.

Is there any good reason not to put a hallway on an AFCI? I'm thinking vacuum cleaners tripping them for no good reason. My thoughts here are that if I put the hallway on the same circuit with the family room and kitchen lights I'll wind up with a grumpy HO, but if those AFCIs are going to be a problem, I'll run a 4th BC and split non-bedroom lights and receptacles and be done with it.

 

[tallgirl]

That must have made it tough to cook dinner! :wink: :grin:

Just so's I knows, and to clearifie the sitcheeation, does this house have its own propane tank, as mine does, to allow for gas cooking?

Most of the cooking in that area is happening about a block away at another house that's using propane cylinders. The rest of the cooking is done at a Catholic private school we've been using as well. I think they are also cooking on propane for reasons I don't understand since I'm pretty sure the Upper 9th Ward has had gas for several months now.

I'm unclear about the organization's exact agreement with the homeowner, but typically when we're done with a building we return it in pre-Katrina condition. Apparently we're now done with this house and it's being returned to the owner.

The NEC does not require that a dwelling unit's service calculation include a provision for electric cooking. The wording is a bit odd (no surprise there), but that is my conclusion. So if the owner states that there will not be an electric range, then don't include it in your load calculation, nor in your list of materials. But do include a statement, in the text of your summary statement (cover letter, whatever), to the effect that provisions for electric cooking were excluded, so they can't come back later and claim you had made an error.

I understand that. I'm just doing what I'm told to do ...

Someone else is responsible for handling the "official" paperwork with the homeowner. After having an EC I've become friends with get burnt by a lack of details in the work that was to be donem, I'll be absolutely sure that the EC who pulls the permits on this house is well and properly informed about everything that's expected on all sides of this situation.