Crimp sleeves

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I'm just wondering what the general consensus is on using crimp sleeves in plastic boxes when there are different size wires entering a switch box. My question has to do with wiring a bathroom where there is a 3-gang switch box. Positions 1 and 2 have #14 wires (in and out) for lighting/exhaust fan and position 3 has #12 (in and out) for a GFI. Is it proper to crimp all the EGC's together (irrespective of size) leaving tails for connections to devices (and if so do you still leave the proper size EGC wire for the device you're wiring) or would you crimp the #14's for the switches and the # 12's separately for the GFI? Is there a code reference for this, mfr's recommendations or just installer's preference?

Thanks,

Phil,
Gold Star Electric
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Part No. Quantity Model
Wire Combination Range (in.)
HFI30-410 Box of 100 410 600V
#18 thru #10 AWG
Min. 1 #14 with 1 #18
Max. 2 #10 with 2 #14
HFI30-510 Carton of 1,000 410
HFI30-610 Carton of 10,000 410

This is from Ideal so yes it is ok to mix 2 different wire sizes it does say min and max,I take that to mean #12 ILO #10 is permissable.
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Part No. Quantity Model
Wire Combination Range (in.)
HFI30-410 Box of 100 410 600V
#18 thru #10 AWG
Min. 1 #14 with 1 #18
Max. 2 #10 with 2 #14
HFI30-510 Carton of 1,000 410
HFI30-610 Carton of 10,000 410


Part No. Quantity
Model Wire Combination Range (in.)
HFI30-401 Box of 40 411 600V
#18 thru #8 AWG
Min. 3 #12 / Max. 4 #10
HFI30-411 Box of 50 411
HFI30-511 Carton of 1,000
411
Part No. Quantity
Model Wire Combination Range (in.)
HFI30-402 Box of 20 412 600V
#18 thru #4 AWG
Min. 1 #14 with 1 #16
Max. 2 #8 with 1 #6
HFI30-412 Box of 50 412
HFI30-512 Carton of 1,000
412
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

I should have listed all sizes to avoid confision as to which you are using.I personally like the green wirenuts with the hole on the end buts thats me :D
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

I would separate the 12 and 14 egc's just easier to work with. I don't know of a requirement to have all the egc's in one box to be bonded together. I in general like to keep my neutrals (gc's) and grounds of different circuits separate
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Thanks Allen. I know you can crimp these together but I guess what I was looking for is whether it is proper or correct to do that at the junction box thereby bonding all the EGC's together at that point or would it also be correct to separate them. If separating them is a code violation then it would be beneficial for all to know that (especially me who has been doing this for the longest time now).

Bonding them together under one crimp would effectively make the EGC size #12 (in my scenario) for all devices in that box, so logic tells me that this would be better than separation. However, sometimes doing that can be a real "PITA". So, if the general consensus is to crimp them all together, then I'll start doing it that way. But if it is not a code violation I will continue to do it my way.
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Phil, there's no requirement to bond them together. You could keep a box with all 14's seperate, provided all the seperate EGC's have an intentional path back to the panel.

That said, I generally tie them all together, leaving the appropriate guage out for each device. I deviate from that habit when the box gets prohibitively full, I'll leave out the 12's and bond them on their own.

Bonding them together is a slightly better system, as you set up redundant paths for fault current should the original intended path fail. And if the entire system never fails, you also have a lower resistance back to the source with multiple paths. :)

And usually it's quicker. :D
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Originally posted by wyatt:
I would separate the 12 and 14 egc's just easier to work with. I don't know of a requirement to have all the egc's in one box to be bonded together. I in general like to keep my neutrals (gc's) and grounds of different circuits separate
Click to expand...
With seperate circuits, the grounded conductors need to be kept seperate unless they are a multiwire branch circuit.
The grounding conductors from seperate circuits do not need to be bonded together at the sw. box. They already are in the panel.

I prefer the crimps!

Dave
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

I don't have my codebook with me today, but the ALL EGC's in a box need to be bonded together in the box. I'm sure someone will provide the reference, or I will on Friday when I get home.

I looked this up once before, but at the moment, I cannot remember if it was just for metal boxes, or all boxes.

Mark

[ November 16, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: busman ]
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Well dang! I was misinformed by an inspector years ago & I also misread art. 250-148 believing that all grounding wires had to be bonded together in the boxes. So to any who may know me in my town, sorry about that. I am always glad to learn something especially if I am wrong. P.S. I prefer crimp sleeves, I hate crowded boxes. Ron
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Originally posted by busman:
I don't have my codebook with me today, but the ALL EGC's in a box need to be bonded together in the box. I'm sure someone will provide the reference, or I will on Friday when I get home.

I looked this up once before, but at the moment, I cannot remember if it was just for metal boxes, or all boxes.

Mark
Click to expand...
It used to say 'all', but now they've reworded it so that you can splice just the grounding for the particular circuit together.
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Paul,

Is this a 2002 or 2005 thing? Our jurisdiction is still on 1999. I own the 2002, and have been meaning to shell out the buck for the 2005. Have none of them with me today.

Also, if it is metal box, can you just choose which circuit to bond it to?

Thanks,

Mark

[ November 16, 2005, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: busman ]
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

if you keep circuits separate back to panel (this dose not work on metal box or pipe sys.) with a meter you can tell a lot why someting is not working I.E. is the home run instaled in the panel. is a box covered up by sheet rock.
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

Thanks guys. As long as no one can cite a specific code violation I feel comfortable that whatever I've been doing has not been an improper wiring method.
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

250.148 is the code article , the exception is for Isolated receptacles.

"... Any equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box...."

So yeah, I think it is proper to splice them together and yes the equipment ground for the 20 amp branch circuit needs to be #12 right to the device.
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

...any separate equipment grounding conductors associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use.
Click to expand...
Marc wrote:
So yeah, I think it is proper to splice them together and yes the equipment ground for the 20 amp branch circuit needs to be #12 right to the device.
Click to expand...
Proper? Does proper mean "required" or "advisable", Marc? Straddle the fence and you're likely to tear your pants! :D

Can you explain to me how the EGC's for my garbage disposal are "associated" with the can over the sink?

Time for work, I look forward to bringing in the 2005 tonight. I so need to get that on my computer. Maybe for Christmas... :D
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

George it is required , they "shall" be joined or spliced.

The association is to the circuit conductors, not the equipment .

Are you asking about the intent?

I would imagine it is to reduce the impedance level should a fault occur
 
Re: Crimp sleeves

250.148
"Where circuit conductors are spliced within a box, or terminated on equipment within or supported by a box, any equipment grounding conductor(s) associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced or joined within the box or to the box with devices suitable for the use in accordance with 250.148(A) through (E)"

So if you have circuit conductors in a box (does not say one circuit two circuits etc just circuit conductors) the egc's associated with those circuit conductors shall be spliced. Doesn't say only spliced to their specific circuit egcs's.
Sounds like all egc's in the box must be spliced together.
The exception clarifies by saying what is not required to be spliced to the other egc's in the box. And that is for isolated ground situations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top