Crimping grounds

[User Name]

Hey guys, probably a dumb question. I was looking to order a special copper crimp to tie some bare copper together. Looking at blackburns products I saw in the fine print for crimping it says to make 3 indents with mechanical tools and 1 indent with hydraulic tools. I'm just guessing they mean OR and not AND, that seems kind of silly to use 2 tools?

But do you guys do just that or do you squeeze the whole thing? I guess I've just always done the whole thing, copper or aluminum. But now I'm wondering if I need to back off a bit, if there's such a thing as crimping it too much? I might be over thinking it, but that's what I do lol.

 

[User Name]

Here's the cut sheet I'm referencing

 

[infinity]

It's either one or three depending on what tool you use.

 

[LarryFine]

I don't see what the triple asterisks refer to, but I'm sure they meant one tool or the other, not both.

 

[Little Bill]

Buchanan crimps use a 4-point indent tool. I never owned one. Apparently Ideal bought out Buchanan and still sell the crimp sleeves. They have a tool that just makes a single indent. It has a place on the crimper for large and small sleeves. I bought one of those tools and some Ideal crimp sleeves to use on a job. Of all the inspectors that I deal with, I had to get the one that is the hardest to please. He comes up with all kinds of off the wall requirements. Anyway, he saw my crimped grounds and said I had used the wrong tool. He said it required the 4-point indent tool. I told him the package said it was listed for the crimps. It actually said "this crimp tool can be used on all Ideal crimp sleeves". Luckily I still had the package and showed him. He then wanted to argue that those were Buchanan crimps and I used an Ideal crimper. I had to also show him the package of crimps that were also Ideal. He was "forced into submission"
Of all the things to worry about, he chose to pick on the crimps on the grounds!

 

[LarryFine]

Often, inspectors who are or were electricians insist that all work gets done they way they would do it.

 

[User Name]

That's what I'm trying to avoid as well, I just want it done right the first time. I contacted TnB and asked all the lady said was the 1 crimp was what they tested it at, so any more or less they wouldn't guarentee it to work properly. 1 indent and done. Seems very strange to me.

 

[LarryFine]

They have a tool that just makes a single indent.

So do some Kleins and other brands of pliers.

 

[letgomywago]

I find it funny that this is an issue when dealing with twisted and crimped bare grounds when at one point in history twisted was sufficient and there is most definitely a large portion of people using small crimp tools that are not listed for the crimp but are functionally identical.

 

[roger]

Here is a picture of an Anderson hydraulic crimping tool, it makes 4 indents when crimping. This is a rebranded version under SQ D.

 

[Steve16]

T&B makes a nice one that utilizes the C barrel crimps. It's not cheap but works great especially in tight spots

 

[roger]

As Larry said, it is talking about one tool verses the other

As far as the note to make three indents with a mechanical crimper verses one with a hydraulic.

When crimping with a mechanical crimper you would make one crimp, slide the tool down the barrel and make another then do it one more time.

Using a hydraulic it would only need one crimp.

We did work for BellSouth now AT&T and their specs called what crimper we had to use and the way it was performed.

 

[User Name]

As Larry said, it is talking about one tool verses the other

As far as the note to make three indents with a mechanical crimper verses one with a hydraulic.

When crimping with a mechanical crimper you would make one crimp, slide the tool down the barrel and make another then do it one more time.

Using a hydraulic it would only need one crimp.

We did work for BellSouth now AT&T and their specs called what crimper we had to use and the way it was performed.

Been thinking about this in my years of doing this I don't think I've ever, maybe once, seen a crimp done just once. Probably because no one else knew to read the fine print I suppose, if it fits, crimp it.

Next problem is I'm finding the different crimp mfgrs require different brands of crimper, you would think 5/8 BG due would be the same across all brands. Talked to a guy from ILSCO yesterday, said if I wasn't using 1 of the 2 brands of crimper my crimps were not done right. Of course I don't have either of the ones he listed, what am I supposed to do buy $10,000 worth in crimpers so I have them all? In the back of my head I'm thinking I could squeeze these tiny copper C and H taps with a channel locks and still work....