Crimping Question

[low-wattage]

I haven't used crimp sleeves hardly at all, but I am going to give them a go. I figure I'll try the Ideal brand since it's available most supply houses around here. So I'll be using mostly their 30-410 sleeves. I already have the Ideal linesmans with the crimper on them, and according to the instructions on the package that's A-OK.

Well it serves me right for reading the instructions, but sad to say I didn't understand one step - it says to crimp twice. Maybe I should have, but I never heard of this.

So what do you do? Crimp the ring, flip the pliers over so the crimper is reversed, and crimp it again from the opposite side? Or do you just pull the ring out of the crimper a hair and squeeze again, so you get two dimples in a line? I am just guessing.

Honestly what little experience I have with them, if you squeeze the daylights out of them once, they are a real pisser to get off, so I can't imagine this is a big deal - but now that I read the instructions, it will bug me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[K8MHZ]

I went to the Ideal web site to look at the instructions to no avail.

I have done many with only one crimp, but have double crimped some as well. If double, I don't flip, just do a side by side.

If you want to remove the sleeve, cut it down the side with end cutters and peel it off. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy even on the tightest connections.

 

[edlee]

One brand, don't remember which, says crimp twice: first time conventionally to crimp the barrel to the copper, 2nd time rotate 90 degrees and lightly crimp the sleeve so it will hold on to the insulated portion of the conductor.

 

[meternerd]

In my experience, and according to manufacturers at several of the trade meetings I attended, crimp twice means once for the wire and once next to it for the sleeve. One is for electrical conductivity and one is for mechanical strength. If you look at the lugs, many have a thinner barrel where the insulation should be.

 

[Part 77]

I came across a pack of T&B HI-410 crimp sleeve wire connectors this week. They are bare and have no insulated sleeve and are for EGC connections. They may have been around for 7-8 years since I bought them. They list the different crimp tools suitable.
They also say to crimp twice, so the second crimp would not be for the insulating sleeve.
I assume they need to be crimped twice to ensure a tight connection. ( for you non-gorilla forearm electricians. ;-)

 

[gaelectric]

The Ideal 410 is used very commonly in this area for the equipment ground pigtail. Twist the wires, slide on the crimp sleeve and crimp once. Cut off the un-needed tails. I really don't see where you would crimp it a second time. Or the need.

In all my years of doing residential I've never seen anyone use these for neutral or hot pigtail connections.

 

[user 100]

The Ideal 410 is used very commonly in this area for the equipment ground pigtail. Twist the wires, slide on the crimp sleeve and crimp once. Cut off the un-needed tails. I really don't see where you would crimp it a second time. Or the need.

In all my years of doing residential I've never seen anyone use these for neutral or hot pigtail connections.

For multiple bare egcs in a box, crimping is, imo, the way to go. Once you get the hang of it, its much faster than wirenutting w/ pigtail. I agree too, that double crimping is largely unnecessary. The only problem w/ this method is that some electricians don't realize that you only need to squeeze the barrel enough to ensure it isn't loose around your pretwisted solids: when squeezing too hard you aren't making the joint any more reliable- your only damaging the conductor.

My personal preference for egcs is the buchanan 2006s crimped w/ the c24. Imo, that tool gives a much better crimp than linesmans.

Crimping was done years ago on hots and neutrals in residential and got replaced by wirenuts in the '60s and '70s-still see it alot in old work.

 

[Part 77]

Opinions that a second crimp are not needed are interesting.
Regardless, I am curious as to the direction to do so by the manufacturer of the UL listed item.
The direction for using the sleeve is quite specific on the application, i.e. what size, number and combinations of conductors.
I have to assume there is also a need for the second crimp as they are designed, but I do not know what it is.

 

[user 100]

Opinions that a second crimp are not needed are interesting.
Regardless, I am curious as to the direction to do so by the manufacturer of the UL listed item.
The direction for using the sleeve is quite specific on the application, i.e. what size, number and combinations of conductors.
I have to assume there is also a need for the second crimp as they are designed, but I do not know what it is.

I agree about the need to stay within listing and if the instructions say that the connector needs to be crimped twice than it should be. This is actually kind of funny because I do know that the instructions for gardner benders copper 310's stated at one time to crimp that connector once with their 5000-A crimp tool (I have yet to see this tool). Even buchanans are approved nowadays to be squished w/ a few other tools besides the c24.

It would interesting to get a plausible reason from a manuacturer about the need to double tap those bare crimps.

 

[rt66electric]

split on the barrel goes here...

split on the barrel goes here...

If the crimp has a split on the barrel. then
the split goes to the female groove on the crimper.

 

[Part 77]

If the crimp has a split on the barrel. then
the split goes to the female groove on the crimper.

Good reminder.
I recall reading that on 3M #14 thru 10 gauge products directions.
Crimping is a science. One of my last projects assigned at work was implementing a new personal safety ground inspection and testing program in a 1400 MW power plant.
If the proper die for the hydraulic crimper wasn't used as specified in the Hubbell catalog for repairing/constructing a ground set, the crimped connection (typically 1/0 to 4/0 CU) would come close to passing a test, but not quite.
The crimped lug looked OK but using the right die would make a difference on a ground set passing or not passing in a test.
It was also important to wire brush connection clamp surfaces and attachment points also.

 

[Smart $]

If the crimp has a split on the barrel. then
the split goes to the female groove on the crimper.

And to clarify, that includes a welded joint. Many barrel-type connectors (not all) are manufactured using flat stock rolled with seam welded. Ring and spade terminals utilize this manufacturing process, in which the welded seam is [always] opposite the extended portion to the ring or spade.