Critique of flicker when A/C kicks on

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dkarst

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
With the dog days of summer upon us, I thought I would analyze my own personal situation for voltage drop when the A/C compressor kicks in. My relatives just moved to a new house and have already asked me "our lights flicker when the A/C kicks in, is that normal?" I'm sure everyone has been asked at one time, "how much is normal, is this a sign of a problem?"

For my case, I made a few reasonable estimates and will try to attach a snapshot of the spreadsheet. We have a pad mounted transformer feeding two homes (ours + neighbors) so I assumed 50kVA although it could be 37.5kVA. I assumed the transformer %Z of 0.03 pu and X/R ratio of 1.6 so if someone thinks I'm way off, please let me know. I also quickly looked up 4/0 Al for our 350' service. For simplicity of analysis, I took the transformer X and R, divided by 2 and added to the line parameters. Then I applied the IEEE approx. voltage drop IRcos +IX sin and also did the exact model as well although in this case, there was little difference.

I guess the bottom line is in my particular case, I would expect to see an 8 volt line-line drop... so if the house is sitting at 235V steady-state with whatever normal loads are on, it would drop to 227 on A/C startup which should provide 97% of rated torque so no problem from a starting torque standpoint. I should also mention I'm ignoring the drop from the panel to the A/C as it is right outside the wall where the panel is located. Since the line-neutral drop is 4 V, I would expect to see a momentary flicker on incandescent bulbs. Any comments welcome.
 

kbsparky

Senior Member
Location
Delmarva, USA
Around here, a pad mount transformer feeding 2 houses would be no more than a 25 kVA, unless those houses had a LOT of load.

I've seen instances where the POCO used 15 kVA pad mounts for the same installation.

Here is one to chew on:

We are installing some ballfield lights, with a continuous load of 78 kVA. The utility installed a 45 kVA tranny! How's that for properly sizing the load?
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
I posted this some time ago:

Light flicker (dimming and restoration of light to near pre-flicker level) of lights from motor inrush) is a byproduct of several factors and generally is difficult to over come.

AC motor loads (in particular compressors) but all motor loads have inrush currents. These inrush currents result in voltage drop in the branch circuit, panel bus, service laterals, utility transformer and possibility the utility HV feeders.

Flicker is in addition user dependent; some people are more susceptible to flicker. For some reason flicker seems to bother women more that men (based upon personal experience).

A Voltage Drop (VD) as little as 3 volts on a nominal 120 VAC system is noticeable (by me), 2.5% VD.

We have had cases were the VD was all a byproduct of primarily single phase 120 VAC loads, in these cases we were able to put the lighting on L1 and all the motor loads on L2, the HVAC compressors were something the homeowner had to live with. This minimizes the flicker.


To test for this VD and resulting flicker to determine the source of the inrush, use a min max amp clamp and min max multimeter at the main service watch the lights(it may take two workers) and correlate to the meters.
 

dbuckley

Senior Member
We are installing some ballfield lights, with a continuous load of 78 kVA. The utility installed a 45 kVA tranny! How's that for properly sizing the load?
The assumption is that the lights wont be on for more than a few hours, and while they're on the tranny will heat up, and when they're off the tranny will cool down.

Run the lights 24x7 and eventually the transformer will fail...
 

Rampage_Rick

Senior Member
Run the lights 24x7 and eventually the transformer will fail...
Have a pumpstation that was upgraded from one 10hp pump to three. A new 200A 240V 1PH service was installed (not by me) A few months down the road the 10kVA pole pig blew up. Line crew was going to simply replace it, but I begged them for a 25kVA.

30hp = apprx. 22kW

Guess nobody twigged on that during the service upgrade.
 
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