culture of your business

[Rewire]

spent the last few days at our ESI expo in pheonix and the topic of the culture of our business was the main focus. I have realized how some negative influences have affected the values that I present in my personal as well as business life. I never considered how important reflecting our company values to our team members was and that matching the culture of the employees to that of the company had an important role. The question was posed to us to write down our company values and then to explain how we delivered that message to the team members. It was a very informative exercise and opened my eyes to some stinking thinking on my part.

 

[fmtjfw]

We complete on quality, no shortcuts, ever.
We do not compete on price.
Paying less is your decision, not ours.

 

[Rewire]

We complete on quality, no shortcuts, ever.
We do not compete on price.
Paying less is your decision, not ours.

How do you deliver that message to your techs? How do you define "quality"? Have you ever asked your guys to write down what they feel it means? This is something they told me I needed to do because everyone might not view it the same.

 

[fmtjfw]

How do you deliver that message to your techs? How do you define "quality"? Have you ever asked your guys to write down what they feel it means? This is something they told me I needed to do because everyone might not view it the same.

There are two of us. We just repeat it to each other every time we lose a bid.

 

[iwire]

There are two of us. We just repeat it to each other every time we lose a bid.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[fmtjfw]

hard question

hard question

Defining quality is difficult.

If we do a panel change or add we typically put in a wireway with DIN rail connection blocks.
If we re-do a large service with some branch circuits passing through the wireway for the feeders, we'll put a 12x12 box above the wireway for the branch circuits (and possible future branch circuits) so if we need to punch more holes we don't fill the main wireway with sharp cruft.
We typically oversize the feeders / service conductors if they are short.
We actually use the derating for rooftop conductors.
We calculate the available fault current and order CB with sufficient AIC
We actually calculate voltage drop and adjust accordingly.
We almost always use specification grade devices.
We typically design space for future expansion.
In some cases, when we "know" there will be expansion, we run spare conductors.
We typically install spare CBs.
For a surge protection job we bid with spare modules or bricks, so the protection can be quickly installed while any failed components are in the mail for warranty replacement.
For commercial we almost always use bolt-in breakers.

A lot of the is stuff is what everybody should do. A lot of our competition does not.

I guess it comes from having worked in a school system with buildings up to 100 years old and realizing what we put in may be in use 40-50 years from now. [Not to mention school buildings hold the most precious thing we have -- children.] This has carried over into our contracting work.

 

[Rewire]

There are two of us. We just repeat it to each other every time we lose a bid.

Stay on the same page will keep you on the right track. Of course even if you are on the right track you will get run over if you just sit there

 

[iwire]

A lot of the is stuff is what everybody should do. A lot of our competition does not.

Shouldn't all of that be up to the person paying the bill?

I know I would not be happy if I brought my car in for front brake pads and the mechinic said I refuse to do pads without doing rotors plus calipers. I also have to flush the entire brake system because it is 'what everyone should do'.

 

[fmtjfw]

Our culture is up front with the customer

Our culture is up front with the customer

Shouldn't all of that be up to the person paying the bill?

I know I would not be happy if I brought my car in for front brake pads and the mechinic said I refuse to do pads without doing rotors plus calipers. I also have to flush the entire brake system because it is 'what everyone should do'.

We tell them even before we do the walk through for the estimate. If they are not interested, they can tell us then.

Oh, and there is one big thing: We have no employees depending on us for a paycheck and I do it for fun. I use the income to buy "toys" [the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys -- plaque from my wife]

 

[Fulthrotl]

How do you define "quality"? Have you ever asked your guys to write down what they feel it means?
This is something they told me I needed to do because everyone might not view it the same.

that is a question that is like the thread that pulling on will unravel the whole sweater.
you know what it is, but as soon as you try to define it, it goes haywire.

early 1970's.....
Zen and the are of Motorcycle Maintenance
by Robert M. Persig

a very good book, but not a quick read.

"Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions."

- Robert M. Persig, c.1991

 

[iwire]

We tell them even before we do the walk through for the estimate. If they are not interested, they can tell us then.

Now hold on, you said everyone should be doing it.

 

[fmtjfw]

Everyone should be doing the underlined text

Everyone should be doing the underlined text

Defining quality is difficult.

If we do a panel change or add we typically put in a wireway with DIN rail connection blocks.
If we re-do a large service with some branch circuits passing through the wireway for the feeders, we'll put a 12x12 box above the wireway for the branch circuits (and possible future branch circuits) so if we need to punch more holes we don't fill the main wireway with sharp cruft.
We typically oversize the feeders / service conductors if they are short.
We actually use the derating for rooftop conductors.
We calculate the available fault current and order CB with sufficient AIC
We actually calculate voltage drop and adjust accordingly.
We almost always use specification grade devices.
We typically design space for future expansion.
In some cases, when we "know" there will be expansion, we run spare conductors.
We typically install spare CBs.
For a surge protection job we bid with spare modules or bricks, so the protection can be quickly installed while any failed components are in the mail for warranty replacement.
For commercial we almost always use bolt-in breakers.

A lot of the is stuff is what everybody should do. A lot of our competition does not.

I guess it comes from having worked in a school system with buildings up to 100 years old and realizing what we put in may be in use 40-50 years from now. [Not to mention school buildings hold the most precious thing we have -- children.] This has carried over into our contracting work.

The underlined stuff is what I meant, again some electricians don't do those things. I'd bet that 25% of electricians don't know about or don't know how to calculate some of those things. Come to think of it, have you ever come across a box that didn't meet box fill requirements, or multiple wires under a single binding screw?

 

[fmtjfw]

that is a question that is like the thread that pulling on will unravel the whole sweater.
you know what it is, but as soon as you try to define it, it goes haywire.

early 1970's.....
Zen and the are of Motorcycle Maintenance
by Robert M. Persig

a very good book, but not a quick read.

"Quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions."

- Robert M. Persig, c.1991

Very good book, I should re-read it.

 

[sbrn33]

We tell them even before we do the walk through for the estimate. If they are not interested, they can tell us then.

Oh, and there is one big thing: We have no employees depending on us for a paycheck and I do it for fun. I use the income to buy "toys" [the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys -- plaque from my wife]

So you are giving business advice but in the same sentence admitting that you do not need to make any money and it is just a hobby. If I didn't need the money I would do most of my stuff for charity and then you could bet your but t that i would do an over the top job.
If I didn't need to feed my family there are a lot of things I would do different but that doesn't apply to 97% of the business owners on this board.

 

[robwire]

So you are giving business advice but in the same sentence admitting that you do not need to make any money and it is just a hobby. If I didn't need the money I would do most of my stuff for charity and then you could bet your but t that i would do an over the top job.
If I didn't need to feed my family there are a lot of things I would do different but that doesn't apply to 97% of the business owners on this board.

:thumbsup:

 

[__dan]

We almost always use specification grade devices.

Every time I walk into a bank, or other expensive operation, and see residential grade outlets and wall switches, I just want to walk right out before I puke. It's a slap in the face. Especially a bank, with the layers of project management, design review, layers of administrative supervision, all passing the buck to the landlord, lease holder, who passes the buck farther, all the way down to the poor slob who is told by all the layers higher up to install 39 cent outlets and 51 cent wall switches because, well, .. it's total incompentence, but we're too busy getting our butts kissed to notice ... (love those Leviton spec grade smooth face outlets)

It's about the culture of the industry, pride and personal satisfaction in the work. I'm sure there are lots of guys who think the bank deserves the cheapest outlet made, when they give it any thought. The question is, how do you compete with that.

In some cases, when we "know" there will be expansion, we run spare conductors.

(definately an adder)

We typically install spare CBs.

(never with small ones, but it's good practice with large factory built panelboards. The spare breakers are almost free when ordered with the assembly)

For commercial we almost always use bolt-in breakers.

(huge adder, but imo, the right thing to do for many applications)

 

[Rewire]

just playing devils advocate but going above and beyound costs money. Someone has to foot the bill for the bells and whistles and some might see this as taking advantage of the customer. Putting specification grade receptacles in a residential application would be viewed by many as a total waste of money and charging a customer for this item as taking advantage. I could sell this as "quality"to the customer but my techs would not view it that way and if they see my company value as one of ripping off the customer then if they do not quit I now have a serious employee problem because if they stay they have accepted that value as OK because they possess that same value.

 

[__dan]

just playing devils advocate but going above and beyound costs money. Someone has to foot the bill for the bells and whistles and some might see this as taking advantage of the customer. Putting specification grade receptacles in a residential application would be viewed by many as a total waste of money and charging a customer for this item as taking advantage. I could sell this as "quality"to the customer but my techs would not view it that way and if they see my company value as one of ripping off the customer then if they do not quit I now have a serious employee problem because if they stay they have accepted that value as OK because they possess that same value.

Spec grade for a new house is an adder. For my house, I want them.

A $2.50 outlet over a $.39 outlet, usually the labor cost is far more than the material cost, and generally, better quality material can be easier and less labor to install. Generally, maybe not with outlets.

Over the short term there is an upfront cost difference. Over the long term, the cost difference lasts and is averaged over the 20 year design lifetime and the 50 year installed lifetime. Some guys are looking at the long term value, where the extra per day or per year cost of the adder is actually zero or negative (they saved money over the long term). They are looking at those spec grade outlets after 25 years and saying 'they look great and worked great over this lifetime, I am a genius' or they are looking at cheap outlets 25 years later and saying ' I saved 2.00 each on those, I beat the system, I have it over everybody'.

Really, with enough experence, both views are valid and statistically signficant. Do you know how many times a plumber saves $50. by buying and installing a toilet that needs to be plunged and flushed three times to operate. It's a big number.

Usually, the customer is clueless and only looking at the short term upfront cost. There are both a lot better quality products on the market compared to 10 or 20 years ago and there is still a lot of crap that gets built. Targeting the market price is usually resolved by choosing (forced to choose) lower quality material and lower quality labor. Some customers are afraid of this, or they may see the long term value, want nice things for themselves and others, and can be reasonable about spending more for upgrades.

 

[fmtjfw]

Not giving advice

Not giving advice

So you are giving business advice but in the same sentence admitting that you do not need to make any money and it is just a hobby. If I didn't need the money I would do most of my stuff for charity and then you could bet your but t that i would do an over the top job.
If I didn't need to feed my family there are a lot of things I would do different but that doesn't apply to 97% of the business owners on this board.

The original poster asked "what is the culture of your business?" I answered with what ours was. Never recommended anyone adopt it. I did say that I'd like more people to follow the Code.

I also do charity work. Completely rewired a chair lift in which the owner had disconnected all the wires in the control system. No charge, owner said I've got to pay for this. Answer, pick your favorite charity and donate what you would have paid us.

Let me be clear I am very lucky. I spent about 35 years doing software. I'm retired. I get more in pensions than I earned working as an electrician. I can afford to be picky and to do charity. I know many can't. I know none of you would like it if I were going around doing electrical work for the cost of parts & 5 bucks an hour, undercutting those who need to make money and pay their workers.

I also know there is a market for for "quality work".

 

[fmtjfw]

just playing devils advocate but going above and beyound costs money. Someone has to foot the bill for the bells and whistles and some might see this as taking advantage of the customer. Putting specification grade receptacles in a residential application would be viewed by many as a total waste of money and charging a customer for this item as taking advantage. I could sell this as "quality"to the customer but my techs would not view it that way and if they see my company value as one of ripping off the customer then if they do not quit I now have a serious employee problem because if they stay they have accepted that value as OK because they possess that same value.

The house I live in was build in 1960. It was built with specification switches and receptacles. I have replaced two original switches that failed. (mercury silent switches). All the other switches are originals. I have found 1 worn-out outlet in the kitchen. If you have a building with a projected life of 50+ years why not install electrical equipment that will last. If you put in stuff that is likely to degrade, and perhaps fail during the design life of the building isn't this a disservice to the owner and perhaps not in the spirit of:

90.1 Purpose.
(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity.

The difference in labor between installing a 39? receptacle and a side wired clamp spec. grade may well pay for the difference in cost.