Curled and twisted wire. Device trim out.

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e57

e57

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San Francisco, CA
In another thread about marking NM, I mentioned device trim out marking methods using curls and twist's for device trim out.

Locally here I can and have worked with a lot of different EC's and with or under quite a few people. Most of which would splice and wire things pretty much the same way - spare a few, many were very simular. Except one that would slip a piece of NM sheath on the rough work of every device to be trimmed out - this and a few other SOP's drove me off the deep end and I had to move on.... I nearly lost it when they were on a pipe and MC job and some dope was there cutting NM up into little 2" peices for this for nearly two hours.... [tweek] I would have liked it better if he sat there and drank a beer and watched me work instead.

Below are some examples of how it would be done normally. *All with either a piece of tape, or just the ground wire wrapped around the wiring for each device.

Phase and neutral* = Receptical
Red, and black twisted* = travelers
A tight curl = either common if with travelers, or switch wire
Phase and neutral both curled with another phase and neutral* = GFI

FYI this method will survive a painter...

Additionally in panels with AF's or GF's I just take the two associated conductors - bend them into a crank shape and twist them together a ways just to keep them together until trim out....

Other box tricks with cable - the cable that leads back to the panel is the one that has its ground landed in the box, cables leading away from the panel are spliced to it. With NM it gets a curl tucked into the box so that is longer than the others.

So how do you do it?
 
I usually tape neutrals and phases that go together. 3-way switching I tape together, typically using the same color for travellers, and a different color for the light. Switch wires I curl. I don't typically downfeed GFCIs, so nothing special for that. I also tape neutrals with phases of multi-cond branch ccts. in the service. Sometimes, especially in a box that will have 3 or 4 switches, I'll write in the box with a marker. That doesn't always survive the painter. Usually I'll also put white tape on the phase in the panel & label what that cct is.

Dave

PS, sorry, this is with emt, not nm.
 
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Phase and neutral* = Receptical - We do the same
Red, and black twisted* = travelers - The travellers are rouped with the common which is stripped if it is in conduit, or is obvious if it is cable based on splices of the other conductors in the cables.
A tight curl = either common if with travelers, or switch wire - We strip the switchleg.
Phase and neutral both curled with another phase and neutral* = GFI - We strip the loads of a GFI receptacle. If it is a GFI that is just one pair, we strip them and know that it is a GFI

Essentially we only need to strip the wires in a certain fashion and that coupled with what else is there and what is spliced indicates what is what. The explanation is probably not making as much sense as I would hope.
 
I have a few "identifications." On a GFI I will sleeve the line side. Years ago when the line and load screws were left and right I would put the wires in the box accordingly, but they messed me up when they switched to top and bottom. :roll: Single pole switches get the feed stripped out so I can put feed on bottom and switch leg on top. (Doesn't matter, just habbit and system.) 3-ways no real distinction unless I have red and black travelers and then I will strip common for quick identification. (Assuming a black common which is 99%.) Outside of that I try and keep wires folded neat and separated.

For those that may ask, I do not pre-strip wires at rough-in because after enough restripping for paint cover and roto zip nicks I just save it all for trim. Do it once, I say. :)

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd94/SurfSideEC/03-26-07_1839.jpg
 
I may be the weird one here (Noooo! :grin:), but I make up all connections during rough; EGC's, neutrals, line-ins and -outs (or is that "lines-in and -out"?), and all device strip-and-hooks.

I then bend the wires so the hooks are right where each device goes. The only too needed is a screwdriver when I come back for trim-out. That helps keep the freshly-painted walls clean.

I, too, often Sharpie-label box interiors, the lower KO's on the box bottom, and uppers on the box sides or back. Often, I'll also draw an arrow pointing at the next box, if it's not obvious.

It may seem frivolous or tedious, but when I trim my own rough-in, or if I have to troubleshoot anything, it sure makes it easier. I use two-character abbreviations, such as:
FI (feed in), FO (feed out), LO (load out), TR (travelers), __ (H/R ckt #), SR (split recepts).
 
I neglected to mention that I often nut wires at rough also. I'd never strip a wire without nutting it though. It would get sprayed & need to be striped again. It seems everyone except homeowners spray paint around here.

Dave
 
LarryFine said:
I then bend the wires so the hooks are right where each device goes. The only too needed is a screwdriver when I come back for trim-out.
Click to expand...

That does does speed up the trim, but slows up rough-in. It all usually balances out time wise, but trim is where time counts most. Do you have much problem with paint covering and wild sheet rockers causing restrip of wires? That is why I prefer to wait on my wire stripping. It is not an over whelming problem, but enough of a nuisance.

LarryFine said:
That helps keep the freshly-painted walls clean.
Click to expand...

A definite plus with the GC. Less to worry about with the newbies, too. :)
 
360Youth said:
That does does speed up the trim, but slows up rough-in. It all usually balances out time wise, but trim is where time counts most. Do you have much problem with paint covering and wild sheet rockers causing restrip of wires? That is why I prefer to wait on my wire stripping. It is not an over whelming problem, but enough of a nuisance.
Click to expand...
I rarely have Roto-zip troubles, as I fold the wires almost flat against the back of the boxes. A wadded-up paper towel takes care of sprayed paint.
 
LarryFine said:
I rarely have Roto-zip troubles, as I fold the wires almost flat against the back of the boxes. A wadded-up paper towel takes care of sprayed paint.
Click to expand...

From what I understand one of the '08 NEC panels was going to require some sort of protection or cover during rough - wouldn't that have been fun? Armor plated covers for the rough due to a lack of respect from other trades and slap-dash work practices. (Or maybe some company has a product to market by trying to make it mandatory.)

Ref: http://esteroriverheights.com/electrical/2008codechange.pdf page 34.

Then again it would be neat if there were a way to do rough and finish device trim all at the same time to include the devices - then cover the whole thing. Come back at finish just to swap the cover for the wall plates....
 
hardworkingstiff said:
Are you getting rough in inspections w/out cutting in the boxes?

I don't think that flys with the AHJ around here.
Click to expand...

I am cutting in the boxes. And no, it would not fly here, either. When I say stripping out the wires, I mean the conductor ends for device installation. I had to do enough repairs at trim out time that I got tired of restripping the ends a second time at trim.
​
 
e57 said:
In another thread about marking NM, I mentioned device trim out marking methods using curls and twist's for device trim out.

Locally here I can and have worked with a lot of different EC's and with or under quite a few people. Most of which would splice and wire things pretty much the same way - spare a few, many were very simular. Except one that would slip a piece of NM sheath on the rough work of every device to be trimmed out - this and a few other SOP's drove me off the deep end and I had to move on.... I nearly lost it when they were on a pipe and MC job and some dope was there cutting NM up into little 2" peices for this for nearly two hours.... [tweek] I would have liked it better if he sat there and drank a beer and watched me work instead.

Below are some examples of how it would be done normally. *All with either a piece of tape, or just the ground wire wrapped around the wiring for each device.

Phase and neutral* = Receptical
Red, and black twisted* = travelers
A tight curl = either common if with travelers, or switch wire
Phase and neutral both curled with another phase and neutral* = GFI

FYI this method will survive a painter...

Additionally in panels with AF's or GF's I just take the two associated conductors - bend them into a crank shape and twist them together a ways just to keep them together until trim out....

Other box tricks with cable - the cable that leads back to the panel is the one that has its ground landed in the box, cables leading away from the panel are spliced to it. With NM it gets a curl tucked into the box so that is longer than the others.

So how do you do it?
Click to expand...
I'm so confused!!!
 
I didn't understand much of that either.

The only things I do are:


wrap the common around the travelers on 3 ways,

twist the travelers (in/out) on 4ways

strip the LINE side of the gfci's

Twist the bk/wh on afci at the panel.

Twist red/bk on MWBC/240 at the panel

On commercial work, if there are more than one set of wires, I will tape the sets.
 
When I rough I splice everything out in the box. The only time I would take NM jacket like mentioned would be to mark LINE of a gfi, but even that is a rare occasion since I primarily work with MC these days. But I wrap my pivot of a three way around the travelers, and the rest is mostly self explanitory by looking at it since it is already all spliced out. I do not put wirenuts, or create my hooks during rough. I found when I became an E.C. that putting wirenuts on during a rough is a waste of wirenuts (on the end of the pigtail) by the time the painters are done.
 
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