customer doesn't want the work

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difowler44

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I have another recurring problem. The customer is too cheap or broke to get some needed work done. There have been obvious hazardous problems, and the broke or cheap customer would tell me, "no, it is fine how it is".

At times I had already done some repair work before I noticed the additional problem and questioned the customer about the additional work.

I had one where the central heat was not working in a tenant space. The building owner asked for the breaker to be replaced. I changed the breaker and later noticed the EMT running from the panel to the central heat on the roof, was just laying on the flat roof, not supported or strapped in any way.

Would you take the breaker back out leaving the tenant to freeze?

I guess it might depend if you were doing the work for a litigious person, or if it was a friend.
 
Unless it's a immediate life safety issue, how is the other violations any of your business? I would do what the owner wanted and nothing else. The tenants can complain to the city if there is no heat or other safety violation and they will investigate, but I don't think it's your job to do that.
 
Yeah, it happens all the time in the property maintnance bussiness. I would leave the breaker in. Unless it was like diflower said.
Just make note of it on your bill, each of you get a copy.
 
Put the breaker in and walk away. Mentioning the repairs may get you some work but forcing the issue certainly will not. Just make a note on your invoice that further repairs were declined. That may or may not CYA in a lawsuit.

I would guess that almost all of the places we go to have some sort of NEC violation beyond the repairs we make.
 
difowler44 said:
I had one where the central heat was not working in a tenant space. The building owner asked for the breaker to be replaced. I changed the breaker and later noticed the EMT running from the panel to the central heat on the roof, was just laying on the flat roof, not supported or strapped in any way.

Would you take the breaker back out leaving the tenant to freeze?

I guess it might depend if you were doing the work for a litigious person, or if it was a friend.
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OK this is a service call and not new construction so it's written up as a repair. Your work order will show that you changed out a breaker ( no big deal) and that you pointed out other work that may be a problem but that the owner did not wish to have said repairs done at the present.

There is no way that you can bring every property that you work on up to code. It would be different if you needed to bring a new feed to that AC unit. This would require new work and not just a repair.
 
WorkSafe said:
Unless it's a immediate life safety issue, how is the other violations any of your business? I would do what the owner wanted and nothing else. The tenants can complain to the city if there is no heat or other safety violation and they will investigate, but I don't think it's your job to do that.
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I agree. MYOB. Do the work you are being paid to do and leave the rest to the owner.
 
You have a few choices
1. mark the bill as to decline to have the violation fixed
2. refuse to do any more work for him
3. turn the issue over to the AHJ (clear check first) really not a smart move as this could easily cost you a lot of busness when word travels.
4. remove breaker is risky as technically once installed it is his property.

personally I would pick #1 same as others have said.
Working for slum lords comes with risks. We all see violations and I even have a few at my house. How bad do you need his business ? As far as a friend any friend of mine would not ask me to risk my license.
 
customer doesn't want the work

I just wanted to see if everyone else felt the same as me. This is the only place I rub elbows with my kind.
 
I wonder. If you come upon a property and notice things that are not in compliance, are these conditions considered violations of code even though they are preexisting? They may not be up to code but are they in violation?

Maybe I'm splitting hairs but to tell a customer that something is in violation when it merely doesn't meet current code might be a bit harsh and sound more like a scare tactic than an informative comment?

Just trying to think like a customer/homeowner. Maybe your intention is to scare him into compliance to some degree for his own sake and that's honorable but from his perspective, it has been working fine as is with no problems for X years so why now is it something to be overly concerned about?

I think it would be in the best interest of everyone involved to inform your customer of the potential problem as a matter of professional opinion. By law you can't force the issue anyway. Maybe respect him enough to explain why the code requires it so he can get a better understanding of the urgency of the situation and make an informed decision.

When I visit my doctor, he has a degree and the letters MD in his title but that doesn't mean that I'll take everything he says as gospel and there have been times when I've questioned his recommendation only to discover that my solution worked. For example, I was experiencing some issues with fatigue once and my blood test showed that I had a very low potassium count. He prescribed a 500mg potassium supplement but before I filled the prescription I did some research on my own and learned that a minor change in my diet might help. I called him and he gave me two weeks to try my solution. Two weeks later my potassium was back within normal specs and I've been fine ever since. To me it was a much better solution than to take another pill.

Just a thought.
 
In general you are not required to bring everything up to current code. When you find violations you must first know if it was ever legal and if legal at time of install then it is ok. Items that were never legal no matter how long ago are still violations.
Do your part in telling customer of violations and dangers. Just like your doctor advises you.
He might say we need to operate imediatley or you will die but you can tell him no.
My eye doctor told be i have the beginning of cateracts but not a 911 yet. I asked him if it could wait till i am 65 so medicare pick up most of it. My MD says i have high blood pressure and with pills is under control. He suggested stop drinking. Point is we pay for advise but up to us to take it. Your doctor is not liable for your refusale to take advice and neither is your customer.
When i see a FPE panel i warn them but few listen because it still works.
 
customer doesn't want the work

You know, I think you guys have intuitively came upon one of the reasons I feel that I "should" fix everything. I was a nurse in one of my previous jobs. The good samaritan act says that health care providers have an obligation to assist.
 
difowler44 said:
You know, I think you guys have intuitively came upon one of the reasons I feel that I "should" fix everything. I was a nurse in one of my previous jobs. The good samaritan act says that health care providers have an obligation to assist.
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If I had to fix everything I see I'd still be at jobs I was working on in 1998. ;)

I learned real fast to ignore a lot of stuff and forget about it as I walk out the door and on to the next job. Based on the things I have seen it takes quite a screw up to really be an immediate danger.
 
customer doesn't want the work

Yea, that is the only catch. I feel that they should pay me to be a good samaritan. Maybe I'm not an angel after all.
 
electricmanscott said:
If I had to fix everything I see I'd still be at jobs I was working on in 1998. ;)

I learned real fast to ignore a lot of stuff and forget about it as I walk out the door and on to the next job. Based on the things I have seen it takes quite a screw up to really be an immediate danger.
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I once told a customer to buy smoke detectors. I wasn't smiling either. Have one now that I have warned not to enter his well hole until he shuts the power off at meter. These warnings don't happen very often.
 
This thread reminds me of one of the 'principles' many often cite, that strikes me as pure idiocy: hang for a lamb as well as for a sheep. Such a mindset only sees a violation, and denies that there is any difference in seriousness.

In our work, a violation might be something as trivial as the wall behind a door lacking a receptacle, or as serious as a weathered service drop pulling it's anchor off the house.

You simply must set some priorities - just how critical is the danger? Is it so bad that you are willing to risk doing it without payment?

A second issue strikes at the heart of the business relationship: the customer needs to have trust in your judgement.

Should the customer be one of those who persist in attempting to cure their 'cancer' by taking 'aspirin' -and your survey of the job will show the history of half-baked repairs- you need to make it clear from the start that it's either going to be done your way, or by someone else.
 
renosteinke said:
This thread reminds me of one of the 'principles' many often cite, that strikes me as pure idiocy: hang for a lamb as well as for a sheep. Such a mindset only sees a violation, and denies that there is any difference in seriousness.

In our work, a violation might be something as trivial as the wall behind a door lacking a receptacle, or as serious as a weathered service drop pulling it's anchor off the house.

You simply must set some priorities - just how critical is the danger? Is it so bad that you are willing to risk doing it without payment?

A second issue strikes at the heart of the business relationship: the customer needs to have trust in your judgement.

Should the customer be one of those who persist in attempting to cure their 'cancer' by taking 'aspirin' -and your survey of the job will show the history of half-baked repairs- you need to make it clear from the start that it's either going to be done your way, or by someone else.
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If you take the attitude that your in total control you will not last long.
The customer is your boss like it or not. They sign your check for today and up to them if they use you ever again. Fix what they want fixed and at most inform them of any problems you see. Unless they hired you to correct any and all violations then don't.
If i take my car to a garage to replace the starter I do not exspect to return and get bill for new breaks. How serious the other problems are is still not up to you. For liabilty simply note customer refused the other work and have them sign it. Even a county inspector can not come in your house after you have a CO. It is the customers private property.
 
customer doesn't want the work

I took everyones advise, received my check, and they called me back for another job on their fire trap.
 
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