Customer Removed GFCI for shower steam

[ramsy]

Any suggestions for responding to customer's BBB complaint, for refusing to remove GFCI?

Customer said, their people told them to remove 50A GFCI disconnect, after install, to keep old-shower steam going.
My invoice states steam unit FAILED Insulation Test, @ 0.003 Mohm, and GFCI disconnect is required for safety.
I instructed them to replace 3yr-old steam unit, regardless of expired warranty.

The steam-unit original-installation manual did not recommend against a GFCI, so my best code reference to require it, is (680.2) definition of
"Packaged Spa or Hot Tub Equipment Assembly"
This defines "water", "heater", and "water", "heating" consistently for use with GFCI devices, when in contact with bath water; as does
Therapeutic Tubs (Hydrotherapeutic Tanks) (680.62), and
Hydromassage Bathtubs (680.71).

The only GFCI exceptions for heaters in contact with bath water is when equip. exceeds 240vac, or 50A, (680.44)

Spa/Hot Tub supply receptacle
680.43(A)(3)
680.44
680.44(B)

Therapeutic Tubs (Hydrotherapeutic Tanks)
680.62(A)
680.62(A)(2)

Hydromassage Bathtubs
680.71

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have to disagree with you. I have never seen a steam shower require a gfci nor have I ever installed one for them. Your references are not applicable to steam showers IMO

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
My invoice states steam unit FAILED Insulation Test, @ 0.003 Mohm, and GFCI disconnect is required for safety.
I instructed them to replace 3yr-old steam unit, regardless of expired warranty.
...

If you really have 300 ohms to ground, there will be some other evidence of a problem.
Exactly how did you make this test? From what point to what point?

 

[curt swartz]

I have to disagree with you. I have never seen a steam shower require a gfci nor have I ever installed one for them. Your references are not applicable to steam showers IMO

I agree with Dennis. I have connected many steam units and have never provided GFCI protection. Most units recommend not connecting to a GFCI protected circuit.

I don't get how you consider a steam generator any of the items you listed from Article 680. A steam generator is just a fancy water heater. Instead of heating a large quantity of water like a regular water heater it super heats a small quantity of water creating steam.

 

[ramsy]

If you really have 300 ohms to ground, there will be some other evidence of a problem.
Exactly how did you make this test? From what point to what point?

Each leg of 240v steamer cord (Nema 6-50p) was Megger tested to cord grounding (Green).
Feeder passed megger, line side of GFCI, each leg measured to bonded cable EGC.

The OEM install manual did specified Insulation Resistance, I believe 20MΩ
Hard water deposits were visible in metal (condensation?) tray under steam unit.
GFCI disconnect tripped a minute or two after unit was turned on.

No steam unit OEM manuals are found with instructions to exclude GFCI's.

Steamer OEM manuals consistantly require a disconnect within sight, require NEC Eelectrical code compliance, and some steamer OEM's instructions require Licensed-contractor installs - excluding owner builders -.

 

[ramsy]

I agree with Dennis. I have connected many steam units and have never provided GFCI protection. Most units recommend not connecting to a GFCI protected circuit.

I don't get how you consider a steam generator any of the items you listed from Article 680. A steam generator is just a fancy water heater. Instead of heating a large quantity of water like a regular water heater it super heats a small quantity of water creating steam.

Gentlemen, UL shows the standard used to investigate products in this category --Steam bath equipment (KQBZ)-- is
ANSI/UL 499, ‘‘Electric Heating Appliances.’’ 2013 revision of UL 499, for "Leakage Current" p28 of 36 prohibits leakage current above 0.75mA, except during heat up & cool down when the "Standard for Leakage Current for Appliances, UL 101" allows up to 2.5mA. Both standards are well below the Class A GFCI 4-6mA.

Any Original Equipment Mfg. (OEM), or sales agent that discourages Class A GFCI disconnect, for steam-bath equipment, may be pushing Unlisted product that can't pass this standard. And, objectionable current (NPFA-70 250.6) from these Unlisted-steam-equipment installs, flowing across plumbing, sub-panels, grounded equipment, appliance doors / handles, and raceways, may not be temporary.

Any contractor installing such equipment without ETL certification, could void homeowner policies, and their General-Liability insurance, where breaking listing law is shown to be willfull. NFPA-70 90.7 requires factory equipment "has been listed by a qualified electrical testing laboratory" (ETL).

"View List" of (KQBZ) UL listed Steam-bath equipment: (a small list)
http://productspec.ul.com/details.php?ccn=KQBZ

 

[kwired]

I think you need to do what you think is right and not worry so much about BBB.

That name may have once meant something, but IMO not so much anymore. I believe you can be a really good con artist and still pay/con your way to be on the "good list".

 

[ramsy]

(GFCI not Recommended) I will even suggest that a manufacturer's recommendation or instruction cannot require you to not use code required device. Those instructions can require things in addition to the code, but cannot delete something the code requires.

While NFPA-70 omits "Bath-steam" equipment specifically, it does require it to be ETL listed equipment (NFPA-70 90.7). And, I believe the safest 240volt steam-unit models explicitly require GFCI protection in their instruction manuals, albeit from either listed, or international Mfg's
http://www.livinghouse.co.uk/ShowerSteamRoomGenerator/caution.html