Cut GEC

[ElectricianJeff]

This recent thread http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=102792 got me to wondering about a situation I ran into a month ago.

I was upgrading and relocating a service to 200 amp. and was meeting with the poco field rep. to get his blessing on what I wanted to do. While there I noticed that one of the homes neutrals (alum messenger) that was being serviced off the same pole as mine had been completely broke in two.

When I pointed it out to him he said just have our guy fix that when he comes out to disconnect yours. I told him then that it would be a week before I would be back and that didn't seem to matter. The home was obviouslly occupied and it bothered me but I felt I had done all I could do by pointing it out to him.

Sure enough, when I got there a week later it had not been fixed and the lineman took care of it. He told me then that they see this all of the time and its from squirrels sharpening their teeth on the aluminum wire. He showed me the piece and it gave me a new respect for them little critters.

No one was home the day I was there and I wasn't about to say anything anyway. I assume they had a good ground but what really bothered me was the poco's non-chalant(sp?) attitude about it.

What am I missing here? I would think this situation would potentially be hazardous to life and property.

 

[iwire]

What am I missing here? I would think this situation would potentially be hazardous to life and property.

I don't think your missing anything.

It is potentially dangerous.

 

[mdshunk]

No one was home the day I was there and I wasn't about to say anything anyway. I assume they had a good ground but what really bothered me was the poco's non-chalant(sp?) attitude about it.

What am I missing here? I would think this situation would potentially be hazardous to life and property.

When I'm called by a customer to investigate brightening lights and they also have blown-up electronics and such, I watch the linemen when they come like a hawk. They're famous for fixing the loose or broken neutrals, then trying to claim that there was no problem on their end if they already know there were damages. I've found this to be true for more then one PoCo. I suppose it keeps them from buying new TV's. Just stay on your toes, is all I'm trying to say. In your case, I'd have documented what you saw by calling it in to the dispatcher.

 

[ItsHot]

good point

good point

When I'm called by a customer to investigate brightening lights and they also have blown-up electronics and such, I watch the linemen when they come like a hawk. They're famous for fixing the loose or broken neutrals, then trying to claim that there was no problem on their end if they already know there were damages. I've found this to be true for more then one PoCo. I suppose it keeps them from buying new TV's. Just stay on your toes, is all I'm trying to say. In your case, I'd have documented what you saw by calling it in to the dispatcher.

Marc I posted here about a trouble call I received to where the poco not having a snap cap insulator on their crimp lug at the weatherhead almost burned the property down when a rotten tree fell and the neutral got energized and the fireworks began!!:roll:

 

[charlie]

. . . I would think this situation would potentially be hazardous to life and property.

I also agree. The problem is the person you were talking to was probably not aware of the dangers that this presented but he knew that it should be repaired. There is a serious lack of training in many electric utilities and that situation exists throughout the electrical industry, not just with the electric utilities.

I don't like the comments that Marc made but, in some cases, he is correct. People generally do not like to make out lots of reports or to admit guilt. Sometimes, a lineman will just repair the broken neutral along with their other work and the crew leader will not know that the repair had been done or that it was broken. Everyone in this world is not out to cheat people; however, some people will try to cover things up. Take some congressmen . . . :smile:

 

[cadpoint]

This recent thread http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=102792 got me to wondering about a situation I ran into a month ago.

I didn't read it!

What am I missing here? I would think this situation would potentially be hazardous to life and property.

And you have the (licsened) knowledge to report it, not the history just the fact.

Note the 1st answer, accredited: given official approval to act; "an accredited college"; "commissioned broker"; "licensed pharmacist"; "authorized representative"
Via HERE but based on wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn.

Several others are good as well!

All I could think of your have a License thus your an agent of some authority !
Thus my answer.

 

[LLSolutions]

It is dangerous, could have burned down the house all you needed was a big enough unbalance. Fortunately the loads must have been close to balanced and the water system and gec did their jobs flawlessly, of course no one ever mentioned if the other H/O had been asked if he replaced his big screen tv or half the lamps in his house, that condition could have been like that for days, weeks, months, or years.

 

[mickeyrench]

which critters are you talkin about.

 

[growler]

While there I noticed that one of the homes neutrals (alum messenger) that was being serviced off the same pole as mine had been completely broke in two.
What am I missing here? I would think this situation would potentially be hazardous to life and property.

There is normally both a number and a web site to make a report of a hazardous condition. If I can't get satisfaction any other way I go through the engineering department. I keep the names and numbers of certain POCO engineers that I have had good luck dealing with in the past. They really are interested in helping you, what you have to do is talk to the right people.

It's good to get to know these people because they can provide much needed information at times. I needed to find the number and names of people for facilities engineers at the Naval Air Station and all I did was call the engineer at the local POCO( he was the only guy in the whole county that knew what I was talking about ) and he was more than willing to provide me with a world of usefull information.

Another good number to keep with you is the local Fire Marshal's Office. These people have lots of information and will help if called.

 

[e57]

When I'm called by a customer to investigate brightening lights and they also have blown-up electronics and such, I watch the linemen when they come like a hawk. They're famous for fixing the loose or broken neutrals, then trying to claim that there was no problem on their end if they already know there were damages. I've found this to be true for more then one PoCo. I suppose it keeps them from buying new TV's. Just stay on your toes, is all I'm trying to say. In your case, I'd have documented what you saw by calling it in to the dispatcher.

Me too - shysters....

 

[charlie]

Me too - shysters....

I really do not like that comment. There are some problems with some companies and with some crews and with some people and with some electricians. This list could go on ad infinitum but you get the point.

 

[peter d]

I really do not like that comment. There are some problems with some companies and with some crews and with some people and with some electricians. This list could go on ad infinitum but you get the point.

I agree Charlie, there certainly could be cases where the open neutral was on the customer side and the poco was blamed for it. Electricians can be shysters too.

 

[mdshunk]

I really do not like that comment. There are some problems with some companies and with some crews and with some people and with some electricians. This list could go on ad infinitum but you get the point.

I might rather suggest that the process that the lineman has to go through to "do the right thing" is unnecessarily complicated or burdensome that he feels almost compelled to do the cover-up. Could also be part of the company culture to work this way. In either event, the companies should empower their lineworkers to do the right thing without fear of being looked at as a troublemaker or burdening them with undue red tape.

 

[peter d]

I might rather suggest that the process that the lineman has to go through to "do the right thing" is unnecessarily complicated or burdensome that he feels almost compelled to do the cover-up. Could also be part of the company culture to work this way. In either event, the companies should empower their lineworkers to do the right thing without fear of being looked at as a troublemaker or burdening them with undue red tape.

Are your referring to the claims process for poco liability with open neutrals?

 

[mdshunk]

Are your referring to the claims process for poco liability with open neutrals?

I have no idea what might all be involved, but there must be some reason behind it. I'd like to think that most people would rather do the right thing, and I'm only suggesting that there are barriers in place that make doing the wrong thing more appealing.

 

[peter d]

I have no idea what might all be involved, but there must be some reason behind it. I'd like to think that most people would rather do the right thing, and I'm only suggesting that there are barriers in place that make doing the wrong thing more appealing.

It sounds like you are dealing with a poco that is being dishonest on a regular and systematic basis, no?

 

[mdshunk]

It sounds like you are dealing with a poco that is being dishonest on a regular and systematic basis, no?

No, not particularly. I've just seen it enough times to make me want to watch and ask questions. I know most of the troublemen anyhow, but every now and again I'll get a guy that doesn't know me, and he has no idea who he's dealing with.