Decorative Fountains...

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chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
Does a permanently installed decorative fountain installed in a building still need a bonding grid regardless of whether it has electrical or not?
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
I did earlier, and didnt think they needed one, but just wanted a second opinion.
Correct, 680.50 says that Part I and Part V of Article 680 apply to fountains. 680.26 is located in Part II and is not referenced by Part V so therefore it is not required.

Chris
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
Correct, 680.50 says that Part I and Part V of Article 680 apply to fountains. 680.26 is located in Part II and is not referenced by Part V so therefore it is not required.

Chris
Now let me throw this twist in it. If someone were to use this "Fountain" to baptize people and it had electrical, would it need a bonding grid????
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Now let me throw this twist in it. If someone were to use this "Fountain" to baptize people and it had electrical, would it need a bonding grid????
If you are baptizing someone then it would be a pool and not a fountain.

The definition of pool includes "immersion" specifally for this reason.

By the way, the addition of the term "immersion" was new to the 2008 NEC.

Chris
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
If you are baptizing someone then it would be a pool and not a fountain.

The definition of pool includes "immersion" specifally for this reason.

By the way, the addition of the term "immersion" was new to the 2008 NEC.

Chris
I have a customer who has this fountain that has been pour in the new church. We took the job over from an EC that started it. There is no bonding grid for this "Fountain". I recently found out their intentions were to baptize people in the fountain. I mentioned they needed a bonding grid and explained it to the customer. I explained the possibilities and liabilities if not itstalled correctly and said the inspector wont pass it. Their response was we aren't telling the city what it will be used for. :confused: This is a church remind you.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
I have a customer who has this fountain that has been pour in the new church. We took the job over from an EC that started it. There is no bonding grid for this "Fountain". I recently found out their intentions were to baptize people in the fountain. I mentioned they needed a bonding grid and explained it to the customer. I explained the possibilities and liabilities if not itstalled correctly and said the inspector wont pass it. Their response was we aren't telling the city what it will be used for. :confused: This is a church remind you.
That won't do them much good if someone is electrocuted while being baptized.

Chris
 

SeanD

Member
I have a customer who has this fountain that has been pour in the new church. We took the job over from an EC that started it. There is no bonding grid for this "Fountain". I recently found out their intentions were to baptize people in the fountain. I mentioned they needed a bonding grid and explained it to the customer. I explained the possibilities and liabilities if not itstalled correctly and said the inspector wont pass it. Their response was we aren't telling the city what it will be used for. :confused: This is a church remind you.
I wonder why the other EC walked away from the project. :grin:
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
just remember that if someone gets electrocuted you will be dragged into court. act accordingly
I can't force anyone to do the right thing. All they have to say is that it is a fountain and thats it. Whatever they change their mind to later is out of everyones control. I can only inform and advise the correct methods. And no I wouldn't be dragged into court. I wouldn't have liability.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I can't force anyone to do the right thing. All they have to say is that it is a fountain and thats it. Whatever they change their mind to later is out of everyones control. I can only inform and advise the correct methods. And no I wouldn't be dragged into court. I wouldn't have liability.
If some dies in that pool from electrocution and you did wiring in the building you will be at the least investigated and have to give depositions. Count on it.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
If some dies in that pool from electrocution and you did wiring in the building you will be at the least investigated and have to give depositions. Count on it.
Agreed,

The fact that they are going to lie to the AHJ about the intent of the "fountain" and you are aware of it will not look good in court.

Chris
 

RICK NAPIER

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
If you have a good rapport with the AHJ tell him quietly on the side and let him ask the questions and deal with it. I have done this often and appreciate the assistance of the electrical contractor and keep their involvement out of the discussion.
 
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