define bedroom

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lat1

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just wondering what the "official" definition of a bedroom is regarding the NEC and afci's. didn't see anything in art.100. i've heard somewhere that if it has a closet its a bed rm., but any room could have one. if its going to be an office, but looks like a bed rm to the inspector, is there any way to prove otherwise?
 
In my area, it's a building code issue. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. It matters not what you call it, if it looks like a bedroom, it is.

Having a closet plays a big part in it.
 
Are you guys for real?? :confused:

If I tell an inspector a room is an office, because that is what it is, than he or she, can go crap in a hat and call that a bedroom.

Give me a break :rolleyes:
 
Around here closets have nothing to do with it and the decision is more a subjective issue. If the room is close to a bathroom it will probably be considered a bathroom. Other jurisdicions will go by what is on the plan.

If the room is submitted as an office and accepted then there is no issue.

I always install Smokes in an office room anyway. Why not? It can save lives--- I have fallen asleep at my desk many times. :D--- esp. when I was in school.
 
Around here its whatever the drawings say it is, they don't care what it looks like. Failed a final the other day because the drawings said garage, yet the room had a bathroom and wet bar, with no garage door. Go figure :grin:
 
Kessler4130 said:
Failed a final the other day because the drawings said garage, yet the room had a bathroom and wet bar, with no garage door. Go figure :grin:
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Obviously a well thought out inspection. :roll:

Nothing like a useless inspector.
 
electricmanscott said:
Nothing like a useless inspector.
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I think the inspector was right. The plans should have been changed to indicate what they were really building. If they converted a garage to living space there is a difference. It should have been brought to the building inspector's attention at the rough in so he could have checked to make sure it was insulated as living space. There may even be zoning issues.

The contractors that are building these houses have an obligation to get a few things right on the plans that are submitted and not just to submit a set of generic plans and build whatever they want.

I would blame the GC and not the inspector. Talk about useless. :smile:
 
The approved construction documents define what each room is. At least here in MA. Period. If there is a field change, then revised documents should be submitted. There is no definition for a "bedroom" in the building code, or any other applicable code.
 
dSilanskas said:
I think a bedroom is a room with a door. Ha ha yeah try to tell the inspector its a office not a bed room. He will tell you that it has the potental to be a bed room
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Every room has the potential to be a bedroom. Look at some of the overcrowded apartments in our downtown area.:mad:

Personally I don't inspect on "potential", nor do I expect to have inspections performed with regard to "potential".
 
bedrooms?

bedrooms?

lat1 said:
just wondering what the "official" definition of a bedroom is regarding the NEC and afci's. didn't see anything in art.100. i've heard somewhere that if it has a closet its a bed rm., but any room could have one. if its going to be an office, but looks like a bed rm to the inspector, is there any way to prove otherwise?
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I am not sure. Maybe this is one of the reasons they are going to require afcis in all rooms. Because they could not define bedroom!
 
LawnGuyLandSparky said:
Is this really worth the cost of an AFCI? :grin:
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Once 2008 is adopted, it won't matter anyway. Are there any other codes besides NEC 2005 210.12 that apply only to "bedrooms"? I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", but I've had a bad run lately... :rolleyes:
 
I have heard that the notion of a closet being a necessary element of a ?bedroom? comes from the real estate world. The idea is that you can?t market a house as a ?three bedroom,? unless all three have closets.
 
charlie b said:
I have heard that the notion of a closet being a necessary element of a ?bedroom? comes from the real estate world. The idea is that you can?t market a house as a ?three bedroom,? unless all three have closets.
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I think you are right charlie. What I find interesting is that a bedroom is required to have a second exit ( door or window ) in case of fire and yet they will market a house as having four bedrooms when one of them is in a basement without this safety measure. I have no idea how they can get away with this?
 
growler said:
I think you are right charlie. What I find interesting is that a bedroom is required to have a second exit ( door or window ) in case of fire and ...
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That is my understanding as well...2 means of egress.
(I think this was debated here sometime last year....Iwire ~ do you recall?)



growler said:
.....yet they will market a house as having four bedrooms when one of them is in a basement without this safety measure. I have no idea how they can get away with this?
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Who is the "they"?
 
I posted this image on another thread that was similar to this one.

How would you guys wire this buidling?:

Names.jpg


There's no kitchen, garage or baths, so would you forgo any GFIs? As none of these rooms are 'living spaces' as listed in 210-52, none of them require receps every 12 feet. And with no kitchen or baths, I see no need for two 20amp SABCs or a 20a bath circuit. If I don't call this a dwelling (which would be easy, by the NEC definition), I don't need a laundry circuit, right?

My point is, you cannot rename a room for the sole purpose of 'getting out' of wiring it correctly.
 
growler said:
I think you are right charlie. What I find interesting is that a bedroom is required to have a second exit ( door or window ) in case of fire and yet they will market a house as having four bedrooms when one of them is in a basement without this safety measure. I have no idea how they can get away with this?
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Don't know about this... I think the "they" you are referring to is real estate agents, and they are only bound by MLS and other real estate rules.

I do know this configuration (one exit) was the case with my basement "bedroom". When I rehabbed from a flood last year, I was told that "they" (combo inspector) couldn't force me to add a second exit, but it was strongly encouraged. I decided I couldn't live with myself if anything ever happened, and sacrificed some wall/closet space to make a doorway to the bulkhead. I rest easier now (really).
 
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