Define Hallway (Article 100)

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George Stolz

George Stolz

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1.) NEC Section/Paragraph: Article 100
2.) Proposal/Comment Recommends: [new text]
3.) Proposal/Comment: Add the following definition to Article 100:

Hallway (Dwelling Unit). A rectangular area of floor space not exceeding 4' in width which serves as a walking path to one or more rooms.

4.) Substantiation: In the 2008 edition of the NEC, it was determined that foyers and similar rooms should be subject to the main provisions of 210.52, and should not be included in the more lax requirements of hallways as provided in 210.52(H). There should be a means by which to more uniformly determine the difference between a foyer and a hallway and to more effectively apply the code as written.

(End)

I realize the definition is a little weak, and welcome any and all improvements on it. :)
 
George Stolz said:
1.) NEC Section/Paragraph: Article 100
2.) Proposal/Comment Recommends: [new text]
3.) Proposal/Comment: Add the following definition to Article 100:

Hallway (Dwelling Unit). A rectangular area of floor space not exceeding 4' in width which serves as a walking path to one or more rooms.

4.) Substantiation: In the 2008 edition of the NEC, it was determined that foyers and similar rooms should be subject to the main provisions of 210.52, and should not be included in the more lax requirements of hallways as provided in 210.52(H). There should be a means by which to more uniformly determine the difference between a foyer and a hallway and to more effectively apply the code as written.

(End)

I realize the definition is a little weak, and welcome any and all improvements on it. :)
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This is a difficult one. I was thinking-- an area of floor space where the distance between opposite walls is no greater than x' (not sure I like 4') which serves as a walking path to one or more rooms.
 
Minuteman said:
So, a hallway can't be round or oval? What about trapezoid shaped? Triangular?
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My thinking is, an area that has enough space to be round, oval, trapezoid or triangular would be big enough to qualify as a room, and should be treated in that way.

Dennis Alwon said:
(not sure I like 4')
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How big is too big to be a hallway? :)
 
My mistake - the word "foyer" appears in the 2005 too.
ashamed0005.gif


But there were proposals that wanted foyers in (H) that were rejected, IIRC. (Of course, now that recollection is in severe doubt. :D )

Edit: The 2008 (A) section is the same as 2005.
 
Many commercial, amd multi-family resi common area hallways can far exceed 4' - and still be hallways.... I really don't think that "hallway" need be defined - but rather the use of foyers - stair landings - and hallways be deemed in some way as passage ways to other habitable areas or such that may or may not be used in a way that needs 6-12' spacing - say "no point of areas used solely for passage shall have any point more than 12' in radius from an outlet"

I think that covers foyers and hallways as well as a bunch of other areas without having to name them - yet covers the vaccum used in those areas like the current 'hallway' - but does not turn your foyer into outlet central any more than any other room that would get nailed by 6-12 spacing - as in most foyers there would be several exits and therefore get more outlets per sq' than say a bedroom would as current wording would mandate.
 
George Stolz said:
Proposals to that effect were rejected in '08, Stick. Proposals to include foyers in 210.52 (not "H") were accepted.
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Correction: My eyesight is as bad as my memory tonight!

I kept seeing "parlor" and my mind was changing it to "foyer". :roll:

I was looking back at some old stuff tonight, and saw this old post talking about that, and realized I must have something backward.

So a foyer is unofficially a hallway, and I have apparently forgotten how to read. :mad:

I better call it a night while I'm ahead. :D

Edit to add: Here is another post that makes my blonde moment funnier. :D
 
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e57 said:
say "no point of areas used solely for passage shall have any point more than 12' in radius from an outlet"
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What about Al Hildenbrand's pet foyer with the grand piano in it? :)

Not trying to be a Debbie Downer, just trying to look at this from all angles.

In light of my recent foyer-hallway brain hemorrhage, maybe a hallway definition is a waste of time. A foyer is supposed to be applied the same way, and can be a much bigger area...?
 
George Stolz said:
What about Al Hildenbrand's pet foyer with the grand piano in it? :)
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Sure you might walk right by it (as solely a passage) and not even know how to play it at all - but someone does.... :wink: Is it an electric piano?
 
George Stolz said:
4.) Substantiation:[/B] In the 2008 edition of the NEC, it was determined that foyers and similar rooms should be subject to the main provisions of 210.52, and should not be included in the more lax requirements of hallways as provided in 210.52(H). There should be a means by which to more uniformly determine the difference between a foyer and a hallway and to more effectively apply the code as written.
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Are you saying that there is an intent under the '08 to make foyers comply with 2-6-12 plug spacing ?
 
dnem said:
Are you saying that there is an intent under the '08 to make foyers comply with 2-6-12 plug spacing ?
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In the ROPs and ROCs there are some CMP members who would like foyers to be subject to the general spacing rules. It was rejected for 2008 but no doubt will be proposed again for 2011.
 
The night I posted these I was looking at my notes which have been building for a couple years, based on conversations here about various topics. Whenever someone said something would be a good idea for a proposal, I opened my file, jotted down a note (sometimes with a link to a discussion, under the old forum format that doesn't work anymore) and left it at that.

When I posted this proposal, I forgot what really brought it up, and I forgot that foyers (as of the 2008) are to be considered the same as hallways. That makes this proposal almost impossible, and pointless. How would we define a foyer?
 
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