Definition of Device - 2008 NEC

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
if a conductor is a device then when calculating box fill it will be counted twice.

when using conduit bodies there may not be enough space for all of the conductors if are they devices

some times conduit bodies are not allowed to contain devices good luck if you intend to install conductors in the body

how do you attach a conductor, I mean a device to a device?

either you are trying too hard with this definition or it needs changed
 

M. D.

Senior Member
I found this does anyone know anything about this??


A new definition of device: A device is a unit of an electrical system that carries or controls electrical energy as its principal function. This new definition was is a result of litigation. By this new definition device such as a lighted snap switch and GFCI receptacles with a LED now can utilize electrical energy, but the principal purpose is to carry or control electrical energy.
 
A screw can easily be a conductor. A main bonding jumper is a device that carries energy as its principal function. Device seems have a definition that could use some tweaking.

Don
That was the purpose of this thread. To stir the post and see what others think.
I know the CMP members are always looking for help with code proposals/comments, this may be a good example.

I also know it is difficult at best in trying to write a code section that works well.


I found this does anyone know anything about this??

I do not know about the litigation, but I am aware of the new definition. :D
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
A wire is equipment and a screw is hardware.

A device gets wires attached to it with screws.

What else can I help you gentlemen with? ;)
 

cschmid

Senior Member
interesting.... If a device is a piece of utilization equipment; with the sole purpose to utilize electrical energy. Wire is equipment that is solely intended to transport electrical energy. Then wire is not a device.. A screw is a fastener and not a device as it is intended to be a means to connect to different items to form one.. Does not really seem so bad but a play on words. so where does the legal definition come in to play? So why do we allow the minority to dictate how electrical is labeled and installed?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
.... If a device is a piece of utilization equipment; with the sole purpose to utilize electrical energy.
I disagree. A device is not utilization equipment, but is used to control or connect/disconnect utilization equipment.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
interesting.... ..... Wire is equipment that is solely intended to transport electrical energy. Then wire is not a device...

No, You missed Don's #14 Statement

First you can't use a dictionary definition for any term that is defined in the code. Device is a code defined word and for the application of the NEC that is the definition that must be used....

We all know it's not a good thing to let the electron charge or the smoke out of the device.
 

pfalcon

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
This goes back to that Meyer-Briggs personality thing of Sensing people versus Intuitive people trying to interpret a judgement call.

There will always be some new device that defies the definition in section 100. Anytime you try to broaden the definition you risk including things that you don't want described as a device.

The thing missing is the statement excluding simple parts defined elsewhere such as conductors and fasteners. As pointed out in an earlier post, including them would change many calculations.

The code may "Say what it says" and thereby a conductor fits the definition of a device per section 100 but by usage throughout the NEC a conductor is not a device.

Per me not the NEC
Device. A unit of an electrical system that carries or controls electric energy as its primary function other than simple parts used to make connections such as conductors or fasteners.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
if a conductor is a device then when calculating box fill it will be counted twice.
A conductor doesn't have a "yoke or strap". 2008 NEC 314.16(B)(4) specifies "yoke or strap containing one or more devices or equipment". . .
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
A screw can easily be a conductor. A main bonding jumper is a device that carries energy as its principal function. Device seems have a definition that could use some tweaking.
2008 NEC

Bonding Jumper, Main. The connection between the grounded circuit conductor and the equipment grounding conductor at the service.
"Device" is not used in the definition.
2008 NEC

Connector, Pressure (Solderless). A device that establishes a connection between two or more conductors or between one or more conductors and a terminal by means of mechanical pressure and without the use of solder.
The bolt, lock washer, washers and nut holding a lug to a bus fits in this definition, IMO.
 

cschmid

Senior Member
I disagree. A device is not utilization equipment, but is used to control or connect/disconnect utilization equipment.

okay point taken bad choice of words..so a receptacle is a speed coupling for electrical utilization equipment. So it is nothing more then a female wire connector made to fasten to electrical conductors in an approved enclosure..
 

LJSMITH1

Senior Member
Location
Stratford, CT
You need to ask yourself, can you or can't you transport electricity through a metal bolt (i.e. from one end to another)? If so, I contend that the bolt can also be considered a conductor (although not an optimal one), as well as a fastener. In addition, the fact that a bolt is an invention, which has a function and a purpose, could also make it a "device".

Whereas a conductor (meaning all species of conductors or cables) is also a contrived invention, which also has a function and a purpose, could also be considered a "device".

IMO, the NEC uses the word 'device' in contexts which could be interpreted differently, hence the disparity of opinions put forth in this thread. I think that this definition can be over analyzed, when all we need to do is review the specific issues arising from a non-universal interpretation of the word "device" and analyze it's context and application.

I think the simpler the item (i.e. a bolt vs. a circuit breaker), the more likely the definition of "device" becomes difficult to classify. Wire, Tape, or screws are a good example of that...;)

My head hurts again....;)
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
You need to ask yourself, can you or can't you transport electricity through a metal bolt (i.e. from one end to another)? If so, I contend that the bolt can also be considered a conductor (although not an optimal one), as well as a fastener. In addition, the fact that a bolt is an invention, which has a function and a purpose, could also make it a "device".
Whether a bolt is conductive, or not, is not the issue, IMO. Rather, is the bolt's "principal function" conductivity, or something else? I rule out "control" as a possibility (the only other criteria necessary to meet the NEC Article 100 Definition of Device.) I submit that a bolt's principal function is fastening.
Whereas a conductor (meaning all species of conductors or cables) is also a contrived invention, which also has a function and a purpose, could also be considered a "device".
Whether a conductor is a contrived invention with function and purpose doesn't matter when weighed against the NEC Article 100 Definition of Device. The principal function of a Conductor, Bare, Covered or Insulated (all three NEC Article 100 defined) is to "carry electrical energy" , hence is a Device.
IMO, the NEC uses the word 'device' in contexts which could be interpreted differently, hence the disparity of opinions put forth in this thread. I think that this definition can be over analyzed, when all we need to do is review the specific issues arising from a non-universal interpretation of the word "device" and analyze it's context and application.
This gets to the interesting thing about the turn of language in the NEC. We don't use the context of the term "device", rather we use the definition, when present in Article 100. When a subsequent definition in Article 100 uses a Article 100 defined term in a definition of another term, context doesn't reign, rather the actual definition reigns.

To illustrate, look at the definition of Connector, Pressure (Solderless) and you will see the lead is "A device. . . ." This is not an arbitrary choice of something to be understood in context, rather, "A device. . . ." removes all ambiguity by saying that a pressure connector, used as described in the definition, is, first, a Device.

As a result of the Article 100 Definition of Pressure Connector, a bolt used to fasten a lug to a bus, that is, a terminal (lug) to a conductor (bus), the bolt, whose principal function is to fasten, becomes a Device.

A bolt merely holding the panel to the wall, however, is not a device.
 
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jaylectricity

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Occupation
licensed journeyman electrician
Is a wire a device if I use it to bundle 6 or 7 NM cables together by wrapping it around them?

Can you use a wire to bundle cables together?
 
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